How To Use Audio And Podcasting Effectively To Promote Your Book With Viv Oyolu

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One of the best ways to stand out as an author is to have some aspect of multimedia in your platform.

With the growth of streaming audio through smart phones and soon to be implemented in cars, it's time to learn how to incorporate audio into your book marketing. Today I interview Viv Oyolu, The Audio Marketing Expert.

In the intro, I mention that I am currently away in the US, speaking in Charleston at Pubsense Summit and then heading down to Savannah. I recommend a book I am finding useful: Better than before: Mastering the habits of our everyday lives by Gretchen Rubin.

This podcast episode is sponsored by 99 Designs, where you can get all kinds of designs for your author business including book covers, merchandising, branding and business cards, illustrations and artwork and much more. You can get a Powerpack upgrade which gives your project more chance of getting noticed by going to: 99Designs.com/joanna

Viv Oyolu is a radio presenter, podcaster and an audio marketing expert. She works with authors, businesses and entrepreneurs to increase online visibility and engagement with audio. Viv is now the author of How to use podcasts to promote your book.

You can listen above or on iTunes or Stitcher, watch the interview on YouTube here or read the notes and links below.

• Viv has a marketing background but always wanted to be a radio presenter. Eventually she did make it on air with the Dream Corner show interviewing female entrepreneurs. When the radio station went offline, she decided to take matters into her own hands. She started interviewing guests around London and then online via Skype, starting her own podcasts and specializing in audio especially for book marketing.

• How audio will continue to grow as a medium with the launch of Apple CarPlay and Google Auto and how this will make podcasting more mainstream.

• Why audio enhances an author brand and helps you stand out. Humans connect through voice before words on the page. An audience will connect with you directly when they hear your voice or see your face. It's a very personal aspect to be in someone's ears for hours every month. It facilitates that ‘know, like and trust' aspect which will lead to connection with fans – and ultimately will lead to book sales.

• Audio can also expand the content in your book, and you can go deeper into aspects that you want to talk about more. Audio is sideways marketing, where you can give loads of value to the audience and people can buy or give if they want to. It feels good to podcast and share via audio. It's authentic and possibly the least scammy way of marketing!

• Getting over your voice and tips for performance. We all hate our voice and the way we look! You just have to get over it! Viv did some voice coaching to correct a high pitched tone, but I've never done that (although I have thought about it). We give some tips about performance – you need to use your energy in your voice, your passion. You need to smile and communicate expression that way. It's a bit like speaking in public, you need to be 150% you.

• Planning and pitching. Are you raising awareness of your brand? Or are you talking specifically about one book? Decide on your objective and then decide on the target audience. Break your book down into the various elements – either topics (for non-fiction) or themes (for fiction) and then research the various podcasts that cover these things. DON'T pitch podcasters who are not interested in your topic! Make sure you are targeting very well and offer the podcaster some talking points. It's very unlikely that they will read your book – they may skim it, but you need to make it easy for them.

• Make sure you are always focused on the content and what you are offering the audience. Focus on giving value and don't keep referring to the book. Let your personality shine through. Space out interviews and don't get fatigued. Don't be repetitive – too many people go on multiple podcasts and say the same thing.

• Worst interview experiences – and things NOT to do. Don't constantly interrupt the host. Don't name drop like a crazy person. Don't go on for ages on one question, and conversely, don't be monosyllabic. It's a conversation, make it natural. Try not to lose track. Be focused and answer the question. [I like to do interviews on video skype as it's easier to use body language cues to move things on.] Respect the audience and the podcaster – you never know who is listening. They have spent a LOT of time building this audience. Be on time for interviews as well, and keep to time.

• Repurposing audio content. You can always ask for the raw audio file or download it from the host's website. You can use a free tool like Audacity to edit audio into smaller chunks and then use SoundCloud to embed these onto your website and share easily on social media. You can use Buy links on SoundCloud so people can purchase your book. You can also create videos on YouTube with the audio and just use static pictures to target people who only consume on YouTube. You can get the audio transcribed and use on your blog using something like Speechpad. You can also use the interview as part of pitches to media.

You can find Viv at TheAudioMarketingExpert.com where she has lots of free resources for authors, as well as offering interviews for your media platform. You can find her book, How to use podcasts to promote your book, on Amazon here.

Transcript of interview with Viv Oyolu

Joanna: Hi everyone, I'm Joanna Penn from TheCreativePenn.com, and today I'm here with Viv Oyolu. Hi Viv!

Viv: Hi, Joanna! How are you doing?

Joanna: I'm good. So just a little introduction: Viv is a radio presenter, a podcaster and an audio marketing expert. She's works with authors, businesses and entrepreneurs to increase online visibility and engagement with audio. And Viv is also now the author how “How To Use Podcasts To Promote Your Book”, which is brilliant because we're a podcast and we're talking about book marketing, so, nice title, Viv.

Viv: Thank you.

Joanna: Now, we've known each other a couple of years now I guess, online.

But tell everyone else a bit more about you and also your background in audio marketing.

Viv: So I came into audio and, well I'm a marketer by profession, so my first degree's in marketing and I have an NB which I specialized in marketing. But 2001, I, fate stepped in, I got to achieve my 30 year old dream, which was always to be a radio presenter. And just by two very weird and very different conversations I got to become a radio presenter. I wouldn't go into the full detail 'cause it's, quite surreal how it happened, but, I got to become a radio presenter, and while I was on air in 2012, the radio station went offline, and I had built up my following as a radio presenter interviewing female entrepreneurs. And I just thought, I had achieved this dream, why would I let it go now, now that I loved it?

It was one thing I could do without really thinking hard about it. I thought, “Why would I let this, you know, dream go?” And I went and bought a microphone and started interviewing my guests. I had a five-week waiting list at that point, because some people, lots of people heard about the show, they wanted to come on.

So I had grown as the interviewer for female entrepreneurs. So I got a microphone and I started interviewing around London, and I found… I interviewed you at the South Bank, remember? Joanna: Yes.

Viv: So I found that to be my regular spot. And then in 2014, I brought it online. So I just interview women entrepreneurs online, which is brilliant, so I deal with people in the States, in Canada, I’m due to interview someone in Australia soon.

So I got into radio through that way, but my diversion I guess into audio as a communication tool started in 2012 when I noticed that the entrepreneurs who were coming on the show, who were authors at that time, were seeing the interview as a marketing tool, and I started this in a bit more investigational, you know, what was going on with podcasting, how that was working with business… I think in 2012 I hadn't quite explored it the way it is now.

So I was doing some research and I got my show onto iTunes, and people just thought “Wow, you have a show on iTunes!” I didn't think it was a big deal. So many other people thought it was a big deal and when I sent out a link to my guests who had been on the show that I was now on iTunes, they were all excited for me, so I thought “Oh, okay, this seems to be a tool that people would like”, and I started investigating a bit more how it could work for authors, and then I came up with this idea that “Why wouldn't I just try and interview an author and look at different chapters within their book, and see if they could use that as a tool?” So I got five people together, I said: “This is what I wanted to do, would you be interested in test-rolling this idea that I had?” And they were like: “Yes, this sounds like a great idea”.

So I wrote out all questions. Because I'd already got the skill of writing questions for interviews, it wasn't a difficult task to do. So I wrote out all the questions for the different chapters. I made sure they chose the chapters that were relevant to them. So I wrote out the questions, interviewed them, and I split it up into different chapter interviews.

So if you thought of five chapters, and within each chapters we have 4-5 minutes, and that gave a lot of content as a tool. So they liked it and I started marketing that and saying: “Look, this is what I do, I do audio interviews, would you be interested in this?” And then I started thinking about events and other ways that people could use audio as a tool. I came up with the idea of going to events, networking events and other events, you see people going around with a camera trying to get some [inaudible 00:04:57] spots or recommendations of what the events was like, and I said “I'm sure this would work for audio”. And I went to a couple of events and people would say: “Oh, it's just a microphone, you don't have a camera with you!” And I said: “No” and they're like “Okay, then I'll talk to you!”

So I got into all that and I did a couple of TedX events, doing that and they loved it, and I think the event organizers found out that they got a lot more content just doing the interviews, the audio interviews without the camera there. And I think from there things just sort of snowballed into seeing audio as a tool and I started investigating and blogging about audio podcast as a tool for businesses.

Joanna: Yeah, and it's so interesting.

And of course, what we've seen in the last week, is Apple did their latest thing, and announced that CarPlay is going to be installed in the biggest car manufacturers, and then Google Auto is the other one, so every new car that's gonna be produced will have an automatic internet radio, you know…

Viv: …Connection!

Joanna: Yeah! So I think it will be the final frontier because of course everyone is using their smartphones right now, and as soon as there's a new podcast, you can get it automatically…

Viv: …Instantly.

Joanna: And now it will be on in the car, and I think this has to be the tipping point, we've seen a massive growth, haven't we?

Viv: Honestly, it's been amazing and I'm just seeing this now. I think everybody has to sit on it. This is going to be a game changer for a lot of people and I hope that people will pay attention to this new development. Technology has been driving a lot of how… the way podcasts has sort of matured and grown, but I think this new development is going to make people realize that you can reach everyone now. Nobody is going to escape your reach.

Joanna: Except they can choose, and I think that's what important. There's lots of podcasts I pick up and then I let go again, because I don't necessarily connect with that show. But you're right, it will mean that people can listen… it actually means people can listen to a lot more audio more easily and they won't have to just listen to the same repetitive news, they can listen to a whole load of shows and you know, that's brilliant.

So let's just talk about why… if someone's got a book, either a physical book or an e-book, or it's an audiobook, we'll come back to that,

but why is audio an effective marketing mechanism, why does audio enhance an author brand or help them stand out?

Viv: Well, the first thing is, your voice will do a lot more than the words on a page or on a book device would do. Your voice would communicate your passion, it will communicate your personality, and I think people get a chance to connect with you directly. You can tell a lot about a person from the type of books they write, but I think your voice goes so much further, that you connect with people in a different way.

And if you imagine, a number of people are auditory learners, and that's why audiobooks have grown substantially, but if you think about it, people can connect with you a lot more easily and get a sense of who you are, and this era where people want to connect with people, it's more this personal people-to-people approach and people sell books, people sell cars, people sell movies, so in that era where everything is so personal, people want to connect with you. And if they know, like, and trust you, I think you're there.

We use that in business terms, ‘know, like, and trust,’ but that is quietly slipping into the publishing industry now with authors, that people want to know, like and trust you and then they want to buy your book and they become a fan. You know, that way, and I think that's one way.

And then the second thing is, you have an opportunity to go a lot further with audio, so let's say for instance I've done this interview now and people haven't heard about me before and they haven't heard about my book. I can put that out, and people get to listen to me talking about what I do and my book, and go, “Oh, that sounds interesting, let me go check it out.”

We’re so time-poor now that not everybody can read, say, on the train, I mean commuting to London, if you have an audio piece you can just put it in your ear and you're one-on-one with that person and it makes it a more personal feel, and you're more likely to want to investigate that further, than say, “Okay, let me just go read a blog about someone”.

Joanna: And I think it's almost like sideways marketing in a way, isn't it?

I'm going to be on some panels on some events. I hate panels at events because you get to only say a very tiny thing and I don't feel like you give enough value to the audience.

With a podcast, in 45 minutes we can give value to the listeners, we can give lots of tips and so they don't have to buy your book, but the people who want to go on and buy the book and get more from that will know that they really want it. And also I feel like… I feel really happy.

I don't like the scammy marketing and I know you don't, and the reason I like podcasting is because you give loads of value for free, and if people want to buy stuff, or support the show or whatever, they can, so it's one of the least scammy marketing feeling, like, it feels good to podcast, don't you think?

Viv: I love it. I love the medium of audio. It just allows me to connect with people in a different way, and I'll give you one instance. So I've been doing my radio show, I've interviewed about 300 women, and I was at this women's event, I think it was Julie Hall's women's event, it was last year or the year before. And I was talking with a bunch of female entrepreneurs and you might say it was a nice reunion, we were all laughing away, and someone just tapped me from behind and said: “I know you from somewhere” and I turned around and I drew a blank, and usually I don't draw blank when I see someone, I remember face and names… and I said “Oh I don't think I remember you.”

And I was looking at her and I had this puzzled look on my face, and she said “Ah! You are the Dreamcorner lady aren't you?” And I said “yes” and she said “I listen to your interviews.” I'd never met her but she just heard my voice and it was that instant connection, and she felt like she could just come up to me and tap me as if she knew me. So it's that instant rapport.

Joanna: I get that all the time in which I really like, people say “Oh I've been listening to your podcast for years,” and I'm like “I really appreciate it.”

But let's just talk about voice, because I think you have a lovely voice, and you’re originally from Nigeria, you've got that Nigerian, my sister-in-law's also Nigerian, and there's just a lovely… I don't know what it is about them, there's actually a way you say certain things that is recognizable to me and I think it's very relaxing, like it's a relaxing, very tiny ,but you know… So you have that lovely voice and I remember when I started podcasting and… you hate your voice.

Did you ever feel that you hated your voice?

Viv: It's normal. So people are listening and think: “I want to start a podcast, I'm gonna start recording audio, but I don't like my voice.” Everybody goes through that.

And I remember listening to the first interview I did, and my voice was so… naturally I have a high pitched voice, and when I'm excited it's even higher so you can imagine some people are reaching for the dial and they're like: “Oh no, she's gonna start screeching now!” So I had to learn and I went to see this voice coach and she actually came on the show and we were talking about communication, we were talking about different things, and I said “Okay I think I'm going to need to do some something about my voice.” Because I was so excited about that show in particular.

So I went to see her and she said: “You only have to talk from your lower diaphragm if your voice is high-pitched.” And when you do that your voice sounds calmer, and because audio is such a sensitive or intimate experience, I think, when your voice is calmer and you’re talking from your lower diaphragm, people endear themselves to your voice, or people want to listen to your voice, because you've made it easier for them to absorb the words that you’re saying.

I can't even talk like that even more because I've sort of gotten out of that habit, so now every time I'm doing anything audio, it's from my lower diaphragm. It sounds a lot calmer and people want to… so that's why you want to listen to me because I sound a lot more calmer now.

Joanna: That is interesting, and I have thought about a voice coach. Particularly recently, I've been recording my audiobook, and it's been so hard, and I really… the breathing is really difficult and I thought I need a voice coach because they help you with that. I don't even have a clue what breathing from, or speaking from the lower part of the diaphragm means! You need someone to, like, put their hand on your body and help you figure out what the hell's going on.

Viv: When you see one, because they will listen to your voice and they know what the inflections are, they know the words that would take you higher , so they will tell you what you need to say or how you need to say it so that you can naturally talk like that, with an even tone, just going forward.

Joanna: So of course not everyone listening is going to get a voice coach, me included, I've been doing this for 5-6 years now and I've never had a voice coach, so you can podcast without one, but what can authors do just without professional help?

What can authors do to maximize their audio impact in an interview for example?

Viv: So in an interview, if they're planning to do interviews, and I recommend that authors go on different podcasts, but I think the key thing is they have to plan their book and to make it more effective.

So a lot of people are thinking “Oh, audio podcast, podcast interviews, how is it relevant to me?” If you don't plan and you don't know the strategies to use, then it's not gonna make sense to you going forward and then it's not going to be effective in how you include it in your marketing plan for instance.

So I always say plan, and when you plan, you have to decide two things: Do you want the interview to market your book? So it's a promotion about your book, so you're talking mainly about your book. Or it’s just to raise awareness about you, your book and your brand, like you’re doing. So I would say this interview I'm doing with you is to raise awareness of me, my book and my brand. Because a lot of people don't know me, and my book is not out yet, so I'm not talking specifically about the book.

So I would say: Decide if that’s what you want to achieve, or which objective you want to achieve, because you can't do both. You can't say “I want to raise awareness of my book and I want to raise awareness of my author brand.” Because I think you're diluting… you're actually losing out, or missing out on the opportunity to do one or the other separately.

So do that and once you decided that, then you pick out the right content that you want to share across each of the places you want to go on.

So if I was going on another podcast and I was talking about my brand, or me and my brand, I would sort of gear the interview towards other aspects of what we're talking about today. And when you do that, you give yourself an opportunity to have more content because you've collected or structured what you want to put out after the interview in a different way. So you have more content that way, and the more content that you have, it's easier for you to create, to repurpose it down the line.

And I think a lot of authors haven’t thought about it in those terms, because the way it is now, and the way I talk about it as a tool, is relatively new for a lot of people to think, “Oh, I used to write in blogs, or go in to speak at an event,” but not really thinking about how you can use… Or doing a video trailer of their book, but not really looking at how they can use audio in that way as a tool to communicate more about their book.

Joanna: So they've identified that… but just coming back to voice thing, just for some specific tips for when you're on and an interview. So for example if people are watching our video they will see that we both smile a lot, and what is very important to get expression into your voice, even if no one sees the video, to get it into your voice you have to have expression on your face don't you?

Viv: Absolutely and you have to let your personality come through so if structured what do you want to say what you want to talk about you have to be excited about going to talk about your book. And when you smile, so even when I'm recording audio on my own, I smile because it comes through in your voice and people get that sense oh, oh, she sounds excited about this let's listen some more.

So you have to give listeners… I think it’s a duty, you have to think about the listener whatever content you're putting out, always think about the person who is listening. And they're giving their valuable time to listen to something you’ve created. So take that into consideration and produce the best possible content and your voice will carry a lot more. Sometimes the content may not be so good, but your voice would actually take it over that finish line for the listener.

So smile a lot and let your personality come through.

So I laugh and so I would make fun about myself and say things to get people to sort of endear themselves to me. Think oh yeah I do that a lot.

Joanna: Yeah, just being natural. It’s actually just being natural. And sometimes I do think that you do, sometimes when I'm really tired I can't record, because I can't push that energy out, so you do have to do it when you feeling like you have some energy, or you have to, if you’re going on a radio show or whatever, you have to fake that energy. Have a hot chocolate or something.

Viv: Boost your mental energy. And I would advise if people are thinking about going on interviews, they should space them out so there's not fatigue or, ‘Oh, I have another one tomorrow, ugh.’

If once it gets like that, then it's not fun. You don't want to do it and the person or the people who have turned up to listen to you, I think it’s unfair that you don't put out the right energies. It's just not right, so you don't do that to yourself.

Well that comes back to what you said about almost splitting up your content and making sure… like you could go on, you personally, could go on a health and fitness blog and you can talk to that audience in one kind of angle, and here we're talking about authors in particular. So you can talk to different audiences and that will put a different spin on it.

But another thing I think a lot of people get wrong is just pushing their book all the time, and that is like the number one issue. It’s like, no… when someone asks a question, and then they say “Oh, but when you read Chapter 3…” I mean giving value, as we said, I think is really important.

So what are some of the other things that people get wrong when they do audio… or like some of the… no names, but some of the worst interviews you have?

Viv: One of the worst interviews, this is a podcast… good thing I can't remember his name, but honestly he’s sort of a celebrity in the online, online celebrity. And he was interviewing another guy. And he was the host.

And this other guy, he brought this guy on because he was the expert, and he kept on talking of the guest. So the guest was going to say something, and, oh, you know he’d talk over him and he would say something like, “Oh, when I used to work for Coca-Cola,” or “When I was consorting for Coca-Cola,” or “Google,” or… so he was name dropping.

And on the reverse, the converse of that is if the guest is doing something along those lines, where you’re name-dropping, or you want people to realize that you’re a hotshot or you have some big clients. And I think you put some people off, because you have to remember the person who is listening is just a regular guy, and if they are aspiring to be into the position you are, you can actually put them off when you’re going on about yourself.

So if you don't plan, that's not a good sign. Talking over the host as well is something that… it's happened to me as a host, where the guests I was trying to ask a question and the guests just went on talking over what I was trying to ask. Because there was a follow-on question from what they had said and I thought it was an interesting point to raise and sort of take the conversation further.

And then another thing, which I find is, where you ask a general question, and they sort of go round and round and then they end up saying, “Where was I? What was the question you asked again?”

And they lose track of where they were, they’ve lost the listener, but more importantly they’ve lost the train of thought of the interviewer. So someone like me, I’m like, Okay, what was the question again, so I now have to remember the question that I had asked. And you go around and around, because you were trying to get in as much as possible, especially referring to your book, that this is the point you were trying to make.

So those sorts of things are [a real turn-off] and when you listen back to it as the interviewee, you’d be disappointed and, and then you don't want to share the interview as well because it didn't come out right, you didn't perform well.

But you wasted your time and people have tuned in, you’ve wasted their time. So it's a double whammy there.

Joanna: Yeah and I think, I mean you talked there about people going really long, which can definitely be annoying, but also people who are really short, like you ask them a question, and then they do like a one line answer. And then you’re like, “Okay.”

So I think if people are on an interview, you have to judge, it's a conversation, but you do have to give a decent answer with value to the listener answering the proper question, respect to the interviewer. I mean when you think about it, there are quite a lot of social etiquette I guess.

Viv: Yes, absolutely, there's lots of social etiquettes. And I think having respect for the person who is interviewing you is key as well, so you’re a professional, you’ve written a book, you're an author, that is a profession. And take it that way. Take yourself and see yourself as a professional, and not too laid-back, because I think with podcasts, it's not traditional radio, so we can just chill out… it's not like that. It's actually a serious medium, and serious people are listening to get value.

So take that into consideration and sit up straight and don't let you words just roll over because…

Joanna: Yeah because you never know who's listening. I mean I've learned that so much. And the other thing is to never assume that the interviewer has read your book. In fact they generally won't have read your book. So you often need to provide talking points, or make sure your website’s good. You can provide your book, they may skim through it, but generally you wouldn't have read every book of your client’s, right?

Viv: Oh no. I think a lot of them would like me to have read it, so I could give it a review, but I can't. I can't do that. So I would skim through the table of contents and pick out things that I think my listeners would be interested in. And they would be good talking points. I think because I’ve done it for number of years now, and I'm done a number of shows, I understand good talking points and good hooks for listeners. And I think the author has to do that, and that's why I say the planning is really important. If you look through your book you can see the different topics that you've written that would be good conversation points, and you can expand on during the interview.

So if you're approaching a host and say, “Oh I would like to feature on your show, these are some talking points I would like to cover, would it be in line with what you do?” You ask, but you should know that answer actually.

Joanna: Yeah, you shouldn’t pitch somebody who won’t fit.

Viv: Exactly, and that’s something a lot of authors do, you know, I have to… that’s a good point. Because I have seen, and I posted something on Google+, this is some months back, just a poster with a comment, “Make sure the host is suited to you and your brand,” and a podcasting host came back to me and said, “That is such a good point, because I did people coming onto my show or requesting to come onto my show, and they say, ‘so what's your show about again?” Did you not look to see or read or listen to previous podcasts to find out if this is the right show for you and your book? It’s the same thing as if you’re a thriller writer you wouldn’t go on a health show. How is that relevant to your book?

Joanna: Unless, this is the thing with fiction, I mean you too nonfiction authors mainly, don’t you? I came on as a joint kind of author, but for fiction authors it’s actually quite difficult, and you often end up talking about your writing process, or about the theme, so I ended up on a psychology podcast talking about some of the themes of psychology in my book. Which was fantastic, but health and fitness I know somebody who writes books with like a protagonist who’s a sailor, so that could be in a sailing podcast. I think if you have a theme that matches, or if you… so Hugh Howey, he’s a massive indie author, he’s just bought a boat and is going to go live on a boat, so again he could go on like a sailing podcast.

So think about either themes in who you are, so you could go on a Nigerian podcast, doesn’t matter if they’ve got anything to do with, yeah, or whatever.

You know, there’s lots of different ways you can angle it, but… You know I wouldn’t go on a romance writer’s podcast, for example.

Viv: And this is something I talk about. I say, if you’re thinking… if you look at the themes within your book, because when you’re planning, these are the things you should do.

Brainstorm, use a mind map to identify the different themes or different hooks within your book, even if you’re fiction or nonfiction, you can target a new audience.

Because this is the magic in podcasting now, is that there’s so many podcasts available that you can pick and choose.

If you looked at the themes in your book, you could easily have five. Easily, if you’ve written it with different angles to it. You can easily have five, and then you can pick and choose which of these podcasts you want to go on. Because there is a podcast in every genre. I don’t care what anybody says, there’s a podcast in every genre. So you can use that as a way to get in.

And then, because you’re creative anyway, as an author, you can sort of say, okay, if I’ve written a thriller, then different things about my character, I can talk about how I created a character, how that character came to life, and the different things he did within the book that gives more to the depth of your book, and someone who’s listenin’ would think, I wanna go read that book now, she’s talking about this character so much that he sounds great, or she sounds great, so I want to go read the book.

So that’s how I want people to see the podcast, as a really, a tool that extends the reach of your book to different markets and different audiences.

Joanna: And then you do talk in your book about making sure the audio is heard.

So what are some of your tips around getting the word out about that audio and repurposing that audio?

Viv: So some people, depending on the host, you may get the raw audio, so apart from it being on the host’s website, you may get the audio file, and I think you should ask for that. And I think a lot of hosts will give that. Because they understand it’s a marketing tool.

And when you get that, you know this tool called audacity which is very easy, it’s free, you can use it. And there are lots of ‘how to use Audacity’ on YouTube to get you to understand how to get started with that.

When you have that, because you plan the internet, you can split the different sections of the interview, and create mini bits that people can listen to. And there’s a tool which you and I know called Soundcloud, which we’ll talk about in a second, but you can use Soundcloud to do that.

Soundcloud allows you to have 180 minutes for free, which I think is a lot. So three hours. That’s a lot of content that you can have and you can sort of chop into different bits.

Apart from using Soundcloud you can actually create videos as well. So you can either use the full interview that you’ve created, or you can use bits of it, so you can chop it. Because you might think, oh, it’s the same content, but there’s some people who only, on YouTube, that is their information, entertainment base. They do not go anywhere else.

And you have an audience there. This is the thing with the way technology is that people are consuming in different formats. So you can’t assume that there’s nobody who would listen or nobody who would read your book on that platform.

And then the other thing is, you can create a blog post, so if you transcribe it to words, you get a lot out of it. So 45 minutes… so if you just think, two minutes of audio is approximately 350 words. That is a lot.

So if you’ve done a long interview for 30 minutes, you just do the math, you see that you have a lot. You can have two or three blog posts within that, you know, for your own purpose.

And also you can send a part of that interview for a publication, and say, oh this is an interview I did, I would like to write a feature based on this interview for your magazine or for your blog. And people hearing your voice will get a feel of who you are. And that makes it easier for them to decide if they want you to write a feature for them.

Joanna: You know what, that’s great. And it’s funny you say that about YouTube. There are people who listen to this on YouTube, and people, I’ve an email, someone said, you know what I like to do is just have a quick looksee, look at the face of whoever it is, and then I just, it’s on in the background, so a lot of people do listen to this show on YouTube, but they don’t sit and watch us for 45 minutes. They just put it on their phone, or whatever it is.

So you’re right about audio. And in fact, I haven’t done this, but you mentioning that now, just using an audio file with a picture of you and the host is fine, isn’t it?

Viv: Absolutely. Yes. Because people want to, they see your face and they say, oh, that’s who she’s talking to, oh. And then they’re listening, they’re absorbing the content that you are sharing. They want to make that connection with you.

And the photograph is a good way to…

Joanna: Better that way… but just, just talk about Soundcloud, because I started using Soundcloud to put my Podcast on and then I gave up, because of course you have to pay for the premium level. So I didn’t use it, and I don’t use it enough.

Tell me why Soundcloud is so good and whether I should be using it more.

Viv: I love Soundcloud. And if they would pay me, I would be their ambassador, for the spoken word. I would be their ambassador, and I think it’s a brilliant tool.

So if people don’t know, Soundcloud was original created for musicians, artists, musical artists. But they soon found out that people with the spoken word was, they could include it in… I think maybe that was just a part of their present development.

But some of the things that they do, and one of the reasons why I like it, it is built purely for social engagement. And for an author, that is what you want. You want to engage with your fans, people who are listening to you. So whatever content you put out there, people can listen, and then make a comment at the exact point they’ve listened to something that was relevant to them, that was interesting, that meant something to them. They can tell you how they feel. It’s just sort of instant pulse, instant feedback to whatever you’ve created.

And if you have a large following, and people make comments, and I’ve put out, you know, stuff and people have made comments… the interview I did with you and, someone made a comment at the exact point, “Oh, I so got what Joanna was saying at this point.” You know? So that’s nice, that’s instant feedback.

But the other thing is, you can, apart from chopping and changing, chopping the different interviews up, you can decide where to share it to. So it has, like I said, social engagement built in where you can share to Twitter, Facebook, Google+ and Pinterest. So those are the four major social media platforms, and it’s easy to embed.

So the thing is, when you do a podcast and it goes onto iTunes, if people are not subscribed there, then people don’t get to really listen to it. But you have the chance every now and again to just repost it, and it’s less than 30 seconds to do it from Soundcloud, so you just go in… and because your accounts have all been hooked up, all your social media accounts, you just go and you just say, press, and send. So if you’ve sent it this week and you want to send it next week, you can do that. You can also include that in your social media campaign that you’re doing. So that gives you more leverage. You can just keep on using it over…

I mean people write blog posts from last year and they still post it on… “Why can’t you post your audio?” Because new people are coming on, and it will be on different feeds, you know, on social media.

So don’t think just because you’ve sent it out once you can’t send it out again.

And the other thing is, if you have a new book out, there’s now a ‘buy’ button, so you can…

Joanna: Yeah, I’ve seen that, and that’s brilliant. And you can use an affiliate link, I think, in there.

Viv: Yes, you can. So you can put your link there, and people who are listening, “Oh, I like that, I want to buy that.” And then, click, straight to Amazon or if it’s to your website that you have the content on.

The other thing I think is really good is that people can make that instant connection. You know we’re talking about going onto YouTube and getting, looking at the face of whoever it is. You have the opportunity to have a photograph on, and talk about what exactly that interview is about, so you can say, “Interview with Viv, talking about podcasting,” or whatever. So people know instantly. “Oh, do I want to listen to this? Is this relevant to me?” And go on.

But one other thing which I think is really, really cool is that people, your fans can embed that on their website. So I did an interview with Andy, who you and I know, Andy Marlow, and someone else took that interview and embedded it on his website. So I get a lot of listens from his own website. So imagine your fan, who is the super ultra fan of yours, can take your interview and just embed it on their website. And more people are getting to hear about you because your fan has it on their website, and they’re sharing it, and more people are engaging with you.

So I think when you think about it, you’re extending your reach in many ways just from having that piece on Soundcloud.

Joanna: At the moment I’m using it mainly for my… when you do an audiobook you can have a five minute, 15 minute excerpt. And I’m using that on Soundcloud. But I think like any platform, you have to have regular content to get any traction. So I think just having the occasional… like if people have five videos on YouTube across a year, it’s not going to do anything, same probably on Soundcloud.

So I really, I like the idea. So thank you for that, very interesting.

And just on audiobooks, we’re almost out of time, but do you have any particular comments about audiobooks or how that’s going?

Viv: Audiobooks are doing really, really well. I know last year when ACX reduced the price for authors, that people were saying, “Oh, we’re not going to use it anymore.”

Joanna: The royalty.

Viv: Yes, royalty. But I think, if you’re not on ACX, the less people who are going to hear about you unfortunately. I know it’s unfortunately, but Amazon are the king, I mean, in this market, they’ve opened it up for a lot of people. And they’re a business at the end of the day. So they have to make money. But they’re still giving you money as well.

I think if you’ve written a book, you’ve printed a book, you have an eBook, you should have an audiobook. Because people are listening to content, our lifestyles have changed, we want to listen ‘as well as’ do other things. So I think you should incorporate that in your marketing plan. And sort of understand when you want to do it down the road. And plan for it as you go along. So definitely, I think you should do that.

I’m going to do one, I don’t know when.

Joanna: I’ve just interviewed, you mentioned Andy Marlow I’ve just finished recording with him, so, yeah.

Viv: I like it, that’s who I did my interview with him…

Joanna: Yeah, the studio was amazing, doing it in a pro studio in Ireland. I’ll talk about that on another show, but it was… yeah, it was really fun.

Okay, so tell us what you have, authors, and what people can find on your website.

Viv: Okay, so my website is TheAudioMarketingExpert.com, we’re having this conversation before, so TheAudioMarketingExpert.com. And there’s lot of blog posts I’ve written, but my books is coming out on the 13th of April, but it should be on presale by the first of April. So people will be able to pre-order it.

But I think the most important thing for authors to know is that this book is really a how-to guide. You get a lot of tips and suggestions on why audio is important for you. And it’s to sort of spark your imagination and you’re creative of different things that you can do with audio and with audio content and podcasts, and actually get more people to want to go and do podcast interviews. I just feel sorry for some hosts who are going to be bombarded by requests for podcasts, but it’s going to be worth it at the end of the day, once you’ve planned, and you understand how you’re going to use it in your marketing campaign.

I think audio is such a tool now that you can’t exclude it from what you do. So you have to take it into concentration with your marketing as well.

Viv: So, if people want to find me, they can go to TheAudioMarketingExpert.com and there’s lot of content there to get them going.

And also, if they wanted to create a bespoke interview, so something they can have in their immediate kit, that is tailored to them and their book and their brand, then they can go to TheAudioMarketingExpert to book under the tab ‘Meet The Author.’

Joanna: Brilliant. Sounds like fun. All right, so thanks so much Viv, that was fantastic.

Viv: Thank you for having me on, Joanna