The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers https://www.thecreativepenn.com/blog/ Writing Craft and Creative Business Mon, 08 Jul 2024 07:20:29 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/favicon.jpeg The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers https://www.thecreativepenn.com/blog/ 32 32 Information, inspiration and interviews on writing, self-publishing, book marketing and making a living with your writing. <br /> If you need help with writing your book, or you want to learn how to navigate the new world of publishing and book marketing, then join Joanna Penn and her guests every Monday. Also covers the business of being a writer and how to make money with your books. Joanna Penn false Joanna Penn joanna@TheCreativePenn.com Copyright The Creative Penn Copyright The Creative Penn podcast Writing, Self-publishing, Book Marketing, and Making a Living with your Writing The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers https://www.thecreativepenn.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/TheCreativePennPodcast2024-1.jpg https://www.thecreativepenn.com/blog/ TV-G Weekly 4e9f9287-f3cd-5f4b-a669-2edfffc8e338 Preparing Your Manuscript For Pitching Agents With Renee Fountain https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/08/preparing-your-manuscript-for-pitching-agents-with-renee-fountain/ Mon, 08 Jul 2024 06:32:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36344 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/08/preparing-your-manuscript-for-pitching-agents-with-renee-fountain/#respond https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/08/preparing-your-manuscript-for-pitching-agents-with-renee-fountain/feed/ 0 <p>How can you make sure your manuscript is ready for submission to an agent — or for publication if you go indie? What are the benefits and challenges of traditional publishing? Will they really do all the marketing for you? Renee Fountain talks about these things and more in today's interview. In the intro, Referencing […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/08/preparing-your-manuscript-for-pitching-agents-with-renee-fountain/">Preparing Your Manuscript For Pitching Agents With Renee Fountain</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you make sure your manuscript is ready for submission to an agent — or for publication if you go indie? What are the benefits and challenges of traditional publishing? Will they really do all the marketing for you? Renee Fountain talks about these things and more in today's interview.

In the intro, Referencing and citations [Self Publishing Advice]; will.i.am on the WSJ talking about AI, music and media; Behind the scenes of Pilgrimage [BookBrunch]; how a chapel visit in Zambia led to a published short story [X @mwanabibi]

This episode is sponsored by Publisher Rocket, which will help you get your book in front of more Amazon readers so you can spend less time marketing and more time writing. I use Publisher Rocket for researching book titles, categories, and keywords — for new books and for updating my backlist. Check it out at www.PublisherRocket.com

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Renee Fountain has more than three decades in the publishing industry, including being a literary agent, a developmental editor, and story analyst. She is the president of Gandolfo Helin & Fountain Literary Management and founder of Gryphon Quill Editing.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Main issues seen with manuscript submissions
  • Is your manuscript overwritten?
  • Tips on pacing
  • What is developmental editing?
  • Key elements of a pitch package and query letter
  • Will traditional publishers do all the marketing for you?
  • Using an agent to get a TV or film deal vs. going indie
  • Dealing with rejection
  • Cash flow management in traditional publishing

You can find Renee at GHliterary.com or ReneeFountain.com.

Transcript of Interview with Renee Fountain

Joanna: Renee Fountain has more than three decades in the publishing industry, including being a literary agent, a developmental editor, and story analyst. She is the president of Gandolfo Helin & Fountain Literary Management and founder of Gryphon Quill Editing. So welcome to the show, Renee.

Renee: Thank you very much. Great to be here.

Joanna: Yes, indeed. So first up—

Tell us a bit more about you, how you got into the publishing industry, and what you do now.

Renee: Well, I've loved books since I was a little kid. I was that kid getting yelled at for reading under the covers with a flashlight when I was supposed to be sleeping.

So after a bunch of boring jobs, I wanted to do something I love. So I was living in San Diego at the time, and Harcourt Brace was the only publisher there. So I thought, I'm going to do that. I started in the very boring division of accounting guides before landing a coveted spot in children's books. I eventually moved back to New York City, just in time for 9/11. So that kind of dashed my hopes of growing my publishing empire.

Now I'm wearing a few hats. I'm a literary agent—when I did come back to New York, I did go with Simon and Schuster eventually. So now I'm wearing a few hats.

I'm a literary agent. I'm a developmental editor, working with writers in my private business. I'm also on the faculty of Manuscript Academy, working with writers there. I'm also writing reviews for Kirkus Indie because it's one of the few ways I get to keep my own writing skills sharp while dipping my toe in the indie pool.

Joanna: A portfolio career, as they call it.

Renee: Sure, why not?

Joanna: I say I'm a multi-passionate creative, so don't put me in a one-genre box! Now, when you pitched me, it was really interesting. You said,

“I get a lot of manuscript submissions that are just not query ready.”

I was like, oh, my goodness, that is a super juicy topic. So let's get into that. What are the main issues you see with those manuscript submissions?

Renee: Mostly it's the writing, whether at a line level or the overall story structure. It could be the writing isn't strong enough yet or the word count may be too high for the genre they're writing. It's mostly due to loose writing, bad pacing, excessive description, or the scene goes on way too long.

Or what I call “story for story sake.” Just telling the reader a lot of stuff that doesn't really matter in the big picture, no matter how interesting it is. You'll know if you have that if you take out that section and it still makes sense. So it's just a lot of things just aren't quite gelling yet.

I've talked to so many people that are just like, “Well, I want to work on a new project, so I just need to get it out there.” Like it's a time limit, and you've got to shove it out the door. You really don't. You really need to take your time.

Joanna: There's a few things to come back on there. I want to address the word count first because this is really interesting, and people don't really understand why word count is an issue.

Could you talk a bit more about word count for some of the most common genres and why it's a problem if it goes on too long?

Renee: I hear a lot of talk about they say that for my first book, I shouldn't exceed X amount of words. Well, if your story holds it, then it's fine. The problem is when you say, “Oh, Renee, I've written this 150,000-word romance.” It's like, mmm, probably not.

I mean, I know you wrote it, but you probably have a lot of stuff in there that doesn't need to be there. So genre in general has a word count that you should kind of be shooting for.

A thriller can be done between 70 and 90, depending on the story. Fantasy is one of the few things that are going to go above 100. That's really what we're looking for. You know, you talk about red flags when you see a query, it's like if I see 150,000-word romance, I know there's a problem.

Joanna: So back in the day, I understood it to be that word count was very much about spine size. So you mentioned there thrillers, 70,000 to 90,000. I write thrillers, but I write shorter thrillers than that. I mean, 70 would be the highest.

When most books are sold online, how big a deal is spine size?

Or is it more about, for example, editorial budget for 150,000 words is much more than a 60,000-word book?

Renee: Well, I mean, with George R.R. Martin still getting published with his microscopic font in his giant 1000-plus page books, like I say, he's still sticking in genre, but I don't know how much times have changed now.

Editing in the Big Five, they really want you to do all that heavy lifting before it gets to them. Things have evolved, it's changed.

I never really thought of it in terms of spine size so much as what the story tends to hold. So if you've ever seen 150,000-page romance, that's quite the book. You have to imagine it's overwritten.

Now, opposed to going the other direction of having something where the word count is too small. Like if you said, “Renee, I wrote this 52,000-word romance,” or whatever it is, the problem becomes pricing at that point. They really like the sweet spot of around 70. They really don't like it under that because of the pricing issue.

Joanna: Yes, this is so funny. I feel like we've been so boxed in with pricing because of Amazon's $9.99 cap as well. I read a lot of nonfiction too, and nonfiction can be shorter and readers will pay more. It really is only a fiction issue with pricing, I think.

Renee: Yes, you expect nonfiction to be a slightly lower count. Somewhere in the 60s and higher, depending on the topic. I think where nonfiction comes in is that you can be more direct in whatever it is, the issue that you're talking about.

It can also go higher. If it's a narrative nonfiction, you're going to another 320-page, 350-page book. So it all varies within there too, but yes, they can hold a lower count.

Joanna: Well, let's come back to the word ‘overwritten.' You know what that means, but it's very hard to know what it means when you're the author.

What are some ways that an author could analyze their own manuscript to find whether or not they have overwritten?

Or you mentioned story for story sake. How do people know that they have these problems without working with an editor first?

Renee: Well, I think with a lot of stuff with authors, it's tough. You can be a great writer, but you've been working on it so long, you can't see the forest for the trees anymore, and your brain fills in all the gaps.

So sometimes it's hard to see it for yourself, and that's where you get a fresh pair of eyes. Whether that's a professional editor, or whether that's another author that you admire, that their books are good.

Anybody who understands pacing because that's where it's all going to come into, the fact that you have the story for story sake. You're writing this long scene, and you're describing everything on the person's desk and everything on the walls, trying to “set the scene,” but none of it is really that important.

You're giving the reader a lot to remember and think about. Whereas if on that desk was a secret relic, that magical thing, yes, you're going to say, “among the pens and the other stuff, you've got this relic.” That's the part we're going to remember.

The idea is if you take some of this extraneous stuff out and the story keeps moving forward, like you've not missed it. If it's like you had to know about this part, you of course, don't take that stuff out.

It's when you take the stuff out and nothing is missed and the story is still whole, that's when you know you're just giving a lot of information.

I've read books where the information was fun, I enjoyed reading it, but in the real big picture, it didn't have anything to do with it. It was just taking up a lot of real estate for no productive reason.

Joanna: You also mentioned before, that feeling of ‘just get it out there.' I totally understand that. I mean, sometimes we're just sick of our own books.

Interestingly, as self-published authors, obviously we can just upload, publish, and it can be selling the same day. So there is a sort of positive sense of getting it out there more quickly.

What tips can you give us around patience or coming back to something with fresh eyes after waiting?

How can we do that? Is it just a matter of leaving it aside for a time?

Renee: Yes, and actually, I wrote an article on that on my Substack of how patience pays off. In the sense that with you guys, and especially you, Joanna, that have had a lot of books out there, you know what to do here, and you know when your stuff is finished.

These first-time authors a lot of the times are like, I just have to hurry up and get this published. They don't realize that you're just detracting from the possibility because you don't get a second bite at the apple.

Usually, when you're tired of that project, or it's not quite right, or you haven't sent it to an editor, or as I said, other person that can give you actual feedback, put it in the drawer for a little while.

I mean, this is why painters turn around their paintings so they don't look at it for a couple of days, and when they turn it back around, they can see where the improvement needs to be made.

So there is no deadline to rush it out the door as a traditional publishing person because no one will pick it up because it's not ready. You knew that when you did it, but you were just hoping that someone would love it enough to fix it. That rarely, rarely happens.

Joanna: You also mentioned pacing a couple of times.

What are some tips around pacing?

Renee: Well, that's hand in hand with the overwriting and bringing scenes that last way too long. You're getting mired down in all these details that really aren't moving the story forward or enhancing your story in any way. So that will drag down the pacing.

So if I'm slogging through three or four pages of what's on a person's desk, only to have someone walk in say, “Hey, would you like that glass of water now?” and they leave the room, what was that for?

I'm not saying that everything has to happen in a split second. I can appreciate the slow burn, but there's that fine line between just having the words there just to have them, rather than having them be productive and add to the story.

If you're spending a lot of time writing about things, introducing a character, “Oh, he was bullied as a child. Now he's got these dark thoughts,” and on and on. Then all of a sudden, he's gone. You never see him again. He just got off the school bus, and you decided to tell me all about this person who got off the school bus, but he doesn't show up again.

If you take that out, it doesn't affect the story. You leaving it in, I'm reading this, and that's kind of slogging the pacing a little bit.

Joanna: I feel like the biggest shift of this, certainly for me as a writer who's been doing this a while now, is changing my head from my author head to a reader head. Obviously, as an editor, you're acting as a reader as well.

So how can we do that? I mean, I guess we've talked about getting some distance. For example, I'll tell you how I do my own self edits. I will print out my draft two pages to a page, so it looks more like a book. So you can fold it up, and it would be like a book.

Then I hand edit with a pen on paper, and I scribble all over it. The font I use is different, so it's not on the screen. So this kind of helps me disconnect.

Some of my hand edits

Have you got any tips for other people to change your head around?

Renee: I think that's a great tip. It's a matter of stepping away, getting some fresh eyes, and then doing something like that, or reading it out loud. If you're reading it out loud, especially with your dialogue, that's a great way to fix dialogue that's going on too long, or is too on the nose, or whatever.

If you read it out loud, then you can see that you're going on and on and on about something. Then you're like, well, I can say this so much more succinctly and have way more impact and not lose anything in the story as a whole.

Joanna: Yes, it is difficult. Again, it's very interesting, I think it takes a number of books before an author can be more confident in their voice.

How have you seen authors develop their voice over the years? Is it a matter of developing creative confidence over time?

Renee: Yes, I absolutely do. I have a client that I've worked with a number of times. He's a veteran, and his writing feels like it's more cathartic for him. It's a lot of very angry stuff. It's not necessarily well thought out, etc.

Then a couple months later, I'll hear from again. A year later, I'll hear from him again. He's like, I wrote this new romance thing because he's got it all out of his mind. This stuff was way different, and that's what I would tell him.

He's like, do you think we should submit the other stuff? I said, you know what, step away for a little while and go back to it. Then you'll see that you got out what you wanted to say, but maybe now you know how you want to say it a little bit more gently, a little bit more productively, if you would.

He's done that, and he's come back and said, you're right. He realized it was not ready to be to be sent.

Joanna: That takes some maturity.

Renee: You'll get that with your practicing of writing. The more you write, the more mature you get. I mean, I can see how my writing has changed. I was reading stuff from 1985, and I was laughing. I'm like, oh, my god, what was I thinking?

Joanna: In 2022, I rewrote my first three novels which I had self-published in 2009/2010. I was like, I've become a lot better writer, and because those three novels were the beginning of a 13-book series, it felt important to rewrite.

It's funny, you said earlier, you don't get a second bite of the apple or whatever, but as independent authors we do. We can do that. I think you meant if you're pitching an agent. Although, people get their rights back, don't they, and often rewrite things.

Renee: Well, that's a road that can't go back to the traditional. That's the same thing as an indie writer, you cannot pitch most—I'm not saying every—most agents, including myself, cannot take anything that's been previously published in any way.

Whether it was just online or whether it was out there online but didn't sell anything, I can't have anything. In traditional publishing contracts, it's going to state that this has never been out there.

Now, if it's been a long time and you have rewritten 80% of the book, it's different then. It's the same with the second bite at the apple for when you're sending to an agent.

Do you know how many times it's very frustrating for an agent to get, “Here's my manuscript, I hope you'll love it.” Then literally a week later, “Oh, I redid a whole bunch of sections. Here's the new one, try this one instead.” Someone has done that to me like four times, and I'm like, no, I can't.

Then there was times where I've gotten one that said, “I sent this to you last year. You gave me some great notes on it. I wanted you to know I completely rewrote it. Will you look at it again?” That is usually very okay to do it that way.

Joanna: Right, we're going to come back to the agent stuff. Let's just talk about developmental editing because you do that. I feel like the word editor is so difficult because it can mean so many things.

What does a developmental editor do that is different to a line editor, a copy editor, a red-marks-all-over-the-page editor?

Renee: Well, a developmental editor could still give you red marks, but they look at the whole big picture. I can't help myself from line editing because I'll see it and I'm like, no, that's not right. So I'll do a little of that as well.

Otherwise, they look to see that the story starts in the right place, the scenes are all necessary and productive, like we talked about before, meaning they serve a purpose to the story and move the story forward, back to pacing.

They often see where the story can be improved by moving some things around, adding or deleting things. If something is said a certain way, you can say, hey, what if you said it this way? Or what if you told that in dialogue? Or what if you showed it this way?

So that's what they do, it's just like moving things around. Where line editors and copy editors are down to the nitty gritty of grammar, continuity, cohesiveness of style, consistency, making sure the words used relay the intention that the writer was trying to.

I took a copy editing class through the University of Chicago, and that was very not for me. You have to keep a style sheet. There's a lot of technical things that go along with it. It's a completely different animal.

Joanna: Yes, I think you have to go with what your strengths are and seeing that story as a whole.

It's interesting, you said ‘checking whether the story starts in the right place.'

I feel like some people won't understand what you mean by that. So could you expand on that?

Renee: Sure. I just read one recently where I got all this information, all this preamble, and nothing was really happening. There was no inciting incident, nothing was really happening in like the first 10 pages.

Then by the time I got to chapter three, some major event happened, and now it was off to the races. I said, you might want to bring that in the beginning and less preamble of where nothing was going on.

As an agent, I can read within the first five pages to see voice and style and everything like that. So you've got to get to certain benchmarks, or you've got to stop turning the pages because it's taking too long to get there. Like I said, fine line between slow burn and bad pacing.

Joanna: Yes, and even if it's a slow burn, you've got to hook the reader. So I read fiction on a Kindle, and I'm pretty much a three click on a Kindle Paperwhite. So I mean, that's not many pages.

If I download a sample, I'll know pretty quickly whether I want to read something. Then if I get to the end of the sample, I will usually buy the book because I am hooked in.

That inciting incident, something happening, is a genre specific thing. The reader has to know, this is the book I want to read now.

Renee: Well, yes. You're showing that this character is going to go on a journey to get a want and a need, and we've got to know what sets them on that journey.

You're going to want to know that within a certain period of time, or we're just reading about these people's lives, and it's not really going anywhere.

If you're, as a reader, sitting there and you're a couple chapters in going, what's happening, where's this going? It's harder to say that if you're reading like a finished book, as opposed to submissions that come in. I'm talking about traditional again.

So there's certain kinds of rules that are adhered to, in a sense. I mean, not hard and fast. You know if the rules are meant to be broken. Yes, it's tough. Okay, so once the manuscript is in shape, many authors want to pitch an agent.

Joanna: What are the key elements of a pitch package that authors need to put together in order to make it through the first mass delete of an agent's email pile?

Renee: A strong query letter is key. I'm actually going to be teaching a masterclass at StoryFest in South Carolina on this because it's the first thing that gets you noticed. It's one of the basic things, but it takes a lot of practice and patience to get it just right.

So you want to have your strong query letter. Keep it to a single page, 250 to 350 words is best. If it takes more, that's fine. Succinctness and showing that you can tell your story and give all this information shows that you've tightened your writing up.

If I'm reading a three-page query letter, I'm going to guess that their manuscript is overwritten as well. So it's very important to have that.

I've created a helpful template for query letters that can be found on my site under the resource tab. That's free for anybody to use. I did a proposal one as well and it kind of walks you through the process.

That brings me to synopsis. You should have a one- to two-page synopsis on hand in case an agent asks for it. I always ask for them. It's because you're going to invest a lot of time reading these books.

While the voice and the writing seem great, four or five hours into this book, you don't want to suddenly see that it goes off the rails, and suddenly there's a donkey flying through the air throwing glitter everywhere. Then you're like, wait, what just happened? You don't get the time back.

So when I'm reading, and I see the voice and the structure, and everything is all lining up, I like to look at the synopsis to see the story arc itself, to see how it's going to play out. Sometimes I can see errors there and say, listen, that doesn't really track.

I may read forward before I make my assessment, they just maybe didn't write the synopsis as strong as they should. I'll still read forward to see if it actually played out in the manuscript.

If you're a nonfiction author, strong query letter and a strong proposal is very key. Like I said, templates are under my resources if you want to take a look at that.

Joanna: Just so people know, what website should they be looking for there?

Renee: It's ReneeFountain.com.

Joanna: Great, we'll come back to that at the end. Just on the query letter, let's just cover a bit more detail now. So obviously, we need to talk about the story or the nonfiction project, whatever it is.

Should we also include elements of our sales, our platform?

Like I'm an established indie author, or there might be newer indie authors than me, but should we be including that information as well, to kind of talk more about the author? We're always told we should talk about author platform, basically.

Renee: Yes, you should.

Indie or traditional, it's understood that you are going to be the marketer of your book. You're going to do most of the heavy lifting.

Traditional publishing will do like very basic stuff, but it's up to the author.

When traditional publishers are looking at a book, if you have a strong platform, if you have a lot of high sales, that will get you absolutely looked at. So definitely showing that you have a strong platform and high sales is great.

You can say, “I'm a successful indie author making my traditional publishing debut,” and go on after that in your letter.

At the end, you can talk about your sales, but your sales have to be fairly high. You know, 3000 is great, I would be very impressed with that, but publishers want to see it as high as possible.

At the converse of that, if you don't have any sales or you don't have a high platform, take the time to start building your platform more. Your followers, your social media, all that for your reach.

Just because you don't have any sales, don't let that stop you. Everybody starts somewhere. So if it's not impressive, don't talk about it. If it is impressive, absolutely. Put it in red, put it in big giant letters.

Joanna: Yes, but start with the story. So I guess, “I'm writing to pitch this project. Here's a bit about the story. Then here's my platform. If you're interested, let me know.”

Should we pitch multiple agents at the same time?

Renee: Yes, but not in a way that you're just throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Research the agents.

Joanna: What are some tips for finding a good match for a book and an author?

Because there's a lot of agents out there.

Renee: It's simply the research. Whether you've read a book that you really like, and you're like, this is just like mine, or this is the type of book that this agent handles. Look in the acknowledgments, find out who the agent is for that book.

Look on Publishers Marketplace, Manuscript Wish List. I think Writer's Digest provides some guidance. I thought I saw something from Reedsy not too long ago where they put up the agents.

I wasn't among them, by the way. I stay off the grid. I don't use QueryTracker or other similar sites, because they're probably a good place, but that's not the way I work.

Attend writing events like PNWA, or Killer Nashville, or whatever fits in your genre, to see their list of agents. They post them up there, who's attending, what they're looking for. Then you can go back for the last two or three years, and I think you can garner a lot of information that way.

Joanna: Yes, I mean, it's better to pitch five agents you've heavily researched than just scatter-gunning twenty-five.

Renee: It's not good to just throw it out there. Also, too, remember you want to work with this person. Maybe there are agents that you've identified from past things that you've been doing, or books that you've seen, or other authors, so pitch them first.

Maybe you have your top five, or whatever it is. Then pitch ones that are relevant to what you're doing. Don't pitch a military agent your romance book.

Joanna: Yes, very important.

Are agents and publishers open to indie authors pitching?

I mean, you mentioned there, if you have a good platform, mention it, if you don't, don't mention it. But are they open to it? I mean, obviously even if you don't mention it, you're going to have to mention it when you have a conversation.

Renee: It's not something to hide at all. I'm just saying what will kind of work for you and what will work against you. Saying, “I'm an indie author. I didn't do very well, and I have no sales.” You don't want to lead with that.

Joanna: Not a good start.

Renee: Absolutely, agents are open to it. Just like I said, you can't pitch a book that you've already published. Unless you said, “Listen, I published this. I sold 50,000 copies.” Then they'll be very interested.

You hear about those Wattpad sensations were they had a million Wattpad followers, and then I think it was Simon and Schuster who swooped in and grabbed her. So it all depends, but yeah, you should absolutely go out there, just not with a previously published book.

Joanna: Yes, I think that's really important. The other thing is, you mentioned before quite briefly, that you are the marketer. I feel like a lot of authors turn away from being an indie author these days because they don't want to do the marketing.

What sort of marketing can a new author expect with a traditional publisher?

You said they do a little bit. What is that little bit?

Renee: They have a group of reviewers that they'll send it to. They might include it in some kind of round up. They're not going to send you on a book tour, you're not going to go on signings.

You don't know how many times I get these submissions that say, “I just want to go with a traditional publisher because I want them to do all the marketing for me.” Well, that doesn't work.

Again, your platform, that's why it's important to raise your numbers. They want you to have a ready-made audience who's already interested in what you have to say and what you're writing and a fan of your work.

They want you to go on podcasts, and be a guest on a podcast, or a blogger, or something where you're talking about your book. Some people have access to television shows, and they go on there and talk about their books.

I had a sports agent who would be invited to talk about sports, and then he'd say, “And then here's my new book.” So you still have to do the main heavy lifting.

Sometimes traditional publishers will say, depending on what your book is, maybe they'll have a set of magazines that would work well for a piece that you could write an article on, or something to that effect.

Again, it's only when you're frontlist. It's only leading up to your launch. Then they're onto the new frontlist book to give them the attention. So you've really got to try to get the irons in the fire yourself as well. It's an unfortunate part. I didn't say it was easy.

Joanna: No, it's not easy either way. It's funny, because I feel like traditionally published authors think going indie is the easy way, and indies often think, oh, I'll just go traditional because then I won't have to do marketing. So there are pros and cons either way. Given what you said—

What are the benefits of going traditional?

Renee: I was going to ask the indie people that question!

Joanna: But from your perspective.

Renee: I think for a lot of people it's kind of a goal for them. It's kind of fun. I mean, not for nothing, having bragging rights of saying St. Martin's took my book, that's great. That's quite a feather in your cap. I think you should do that if that's what you want to do.

I always tell my clients, the publishing landscape is tough. It really is. I will try so long, sometimes it takes me two years to sell their book, depending on what it is. I will do everything I could, send it out, get some feedback.

Then when I say, listen, I think I've exhausted all my possibilities, at least they have the option of self-publishing, a smaller press, going to a hybrid, whatever they want to do to get their book out there. I believed in that book enough, and I'd love to see it out there too.

So you got your bragging rights, the nice feather in your cap, something that I think is wonderful.

You're also looking at the other side. You're giving up a big piece of your pie. You're still doing a lot of the marketing. You may have better distribution the other way.

I don't know about in the UK, but we don't have many brick and mortar stores and more. They've all been reduced to online. I think there's a couple of Barnes and Nobles left, but this still happens. There's still airports and all that you could try to get your book into. I think there's definitely pros and cons to both sides.

Joanna: Yes, indeed. One of the other things I was considering around this is film and TV rights because your agency looks at that. I mean, there are agents who have relationships with film and TV agents or studios. Is that a better way to go, as well?

For example, I pitched to a person in TV a while back, and they said, “Well, why isn't your literary agent doing that for you?” I was like, “Oh, well, I'm doing it myself because I'm not with an agent.” So do you think that it's a benefit to have an agent do that?

Is there a better chance of getting a film or TV deal that way?

Renee: I think some of them require it. Just like the Big Five requires you to have an agent, it's because they don't want to deal directly with the author.

So that's why they want to have the intermediate of an agent to make sure you have representation, make sure that you have someone saying, “They said this, but really, this is what's gonna happen.” So that's the pro to having an agent, to do that kind of stuff.

For the most part, film and television, I don't know if like Amazon Studios doesn't require an agent or some of those that have popped up in the last few years.

Film and TV, for the most part, are going off of a great story. A lot of times it could be high sales figures that catch their eye, but it also has to do with what's working at the time.

Hallmark, Lifetime, they're always looking for new stories that fit their profile and demographics. They want an agent to send them their stuff.

When I was optioning books for film and TV at Harcourt, I was obviously only working with my own books, but I would have celebrity managers calling me up going, “Do you have a female-driven vehicle?” She was representing Cher, and it's like, well, I'll see what I have.

When I was a scout for CW Television Network, I looked for the story and what was interesting, whether it was indie or not. It could have been a magazine article, but whatever worked for adaptation.

So I was doing double duty back then, running a book review site. So I was reading all sorts of different things. So in that aspect, just because you're an indie author, doesn't mean you can't pursue that avenue.

There are some agents that just do—like I don't represent the script, so I don't go the other way—but there might be some other agents that take your indie book and sell for film rights. We tend to work with just the books that we represent when we do that.

Joanna: Then just coming back to something you said earlier. If you take on a manuscript, for example, it might take a few years, or it might not even happen.

What stops a publisher from publishing a book or taking on a book?

Is it just their list, they don't want that kind of book right now? Or a timing problem? Like if it's gone past your level of quality, there's this next level at a publishing house.

Renee: It could be a lot of things. A rejection by them would be, “This doesn't quite fit in my list,” or “I have something similar,” or what I always hear the same is, “Paranormal doesn't sell.” I'm like, it doesn't sell because you guys won't take any.

Joanna: It's selling pretty well for indie authors!

Renee: Exactly. It's like, well, maybe take one and see how it sells. I understand there's tropey stuff, and I found a werewolf one which I usually don't take. I say please don't send me witches, warlocks, werewolves, vampires, zombies.

I read one from one of our indie authors, actually, she came in as an indie. I thought she put a nice twist on an old trope. It came close at Macmillan, but didn't quite pass the finish line. You know, it happens.

Joanna: What should an author do with these rejections?

I mean, I find being an indie author very empowering because you don't have to ask permission. Any success and any failure is entirely my fault, basically. No one's in control except me, so I can just keep trying to make things happen.

Obviously, the same as anyone else, some books sell better than others. That's kind of the way it is. So I feel like I've never experienced the kind of rejection that people get submitting to agents or to traditional publishing. So how can authors deal with that?

Renee: It's tough.

It's tough not to take it personally, but I have to tell you, do not take it personally. I've seen them pass on brilliant writing and brilliant books.

It's either because they were so overwhelmed with the work on their plate already that they have their stable of agents that they want to look at, or they just weren't in the mood. I don't know, but it is not personal.

Like I said, if it comes to me, and I'm like, this kept me interested and really thought this was great, and then I send it out, I'm dealing with the rejection along with everybody else. It's like, this is really good, did you read it?

That's what happens when we're in a subjective industry. My fantastic is someone else's meh.

Joanna: Yes, exactly. It really is, isn't? As a reader, you know, someone can say, “Oh, this is an amazing book.” I'm like, oh, no, not for me.

Renee: “I couldn't put it down.” Then you're like, “I can't pick it up.”

Joanna: Exactly, and sometimes I'll try books because they're just so popular. Then I'll be like, I don't understand why this is so big.

Renee: Sometimes we have conversations, my partner and I, and she's like how did this get out there, but this won't go? Well, it's like, listen, we don't know what kind of blackmail is happening out there.

Joanna: What the hell is going on?!

Renee: What dirt people have on the other?! I don't know. But again, it's subjective.

Joanna: Yes, and it's always changing. I feel like the other piece of advice is to just write another book, because as creative people, that's what we do. I feel like the more ideas I have, the more ideas I have. The time problem is getting everything written.

I have two particular projects I am thinking of pitching, but I love to move on so fast.

I was thinking, like let's say this project I'm working on right now, let's call it the vineyard book, if I finished that, and then I pitch an agent, it might take, I don't know, six months—maybe never, obviously—but let's say it takes six months to get an agent.

Then it takes six months to a year, you said two years, to get a publishing deal. Then it takes a publisher a year or two years to get the book in the world. Is that about right?

Renee: Well, some of it. Depending on how quick you get an agent, that's the first step. Then for it to go to publishing, you can hear back sometimes within two weeks of “no, thank you,” or it could take a year.

So it's somewhere in between two weeks and a year that you'll hear back, depending on who you've sent it to and how much stuff is on their plate.

Then, if you do get, “Yeah, we'd like to greenlight this,” and when I said it took me two years to sell something, it was because, again, it's timing. We talked about it, it may not be right now, but maybe it'll rewrite later.

So it just took me two years that we sold it, finally. Then she wrote her second book with them. So it's just finding the haystack, then finding the haystack with the needle in it, you know? Then if you get a book deal, right now they are backed up to where it's taking about two years to pub, unless they fast track you. Although I haven't seen that lately.

Joanna: You can get some money on signing, but then you get paid on publication.

Renee: Correct. It's half on signing, and usually the other half on publication.

Joanna: Yes, so just keep that in mind, people, in terms of cash flow management.

Renee: Okay, not on publication. Let's just say on accepted final manuscript.

Joanna: But they're in control of that, they can just send it back with some more issues. That's not up to the author.

Renee: We don't usually try to drag it out.

Joanna: It's so interesting. Like, why are we in this industry, Renee? It's so hard!

Renee: Because we love it!

Joanna: We love books!

Renee: Back to one of your other points, too, is your first book may not be your first book published. It's like, “I love your voice, I love your writing. The story, not so much. Send me your next project.” That's what I'll tell them. Then the next one might be a really great story, and then you send that one out.

So they get their foot in the door, you get published on the second book you wrote, or third or fifth or tenth. Then you get that first one out there, and then the publisher—if it sells through, you have to sell through because you won't get your second book in there if it doesn't.

Now they've sold through, and they ask what else are they working on. Then you go, “Here, I have these other options for you.” At that point, they'll be more apt to edit you or help shape up what it is that you sent.

Joanna: You mentioned ‘sell-through' there. Can you just explain that?

Renee: Sure. Let's say when you sell it, let's say you were given a $5,000 advance. There's a price for your book, and you get a percentage of that wholesale price. So it's not retail, unless it's negotiated that way, but let's just go with wholesale numbers.

So you get the couple of points on the wholesale price, and that goes against your advance. So you have to sell X amount of books at your 8%, usually, depending on what you negotiate, and that goes towards that $5000. Then when you sell enough and that $5000 is paid off, then you start seeing royalties.

Joanna: Yes, I think that's really important too. The word advance means advance against royalties, and yet people lose track of what that actually means.

In that case, it's really interesting because here in the UK, I have one author in mind in particular who got a massive, massive deal, like really, really huge, and then we never heard from her again.

Whereas I know other authors who started on much lower advances, but sold through like multiple, multiple times. Then the next time, they got a better deal. It's hard to know which way is a better way to go.

Renee: Yes, it is. As an indie author, you're not used to getting an advance anyways. So if it was a matter of between getting a lower advance and knowing that you could sell through and getting your royalties, there really is no difference, right? So it's six of one, half dozen of another.

If you don't know that you're strong in the marketing aspect. I've had authors come to me from like St. Martin's and whatever, and they didn't take his next book because they didn't sell through. Then he came to me without me realizing that, and then I found out real quick why. I sold the book, and they did nothing.

Joanna: I guess the other thing is —

Don't be an idiot and treat people nicely, because it's not that big an industry really, is it?

Renee: You put your book out there, you always have to be selling, you always have to be working at it. Building your platform, getting the word out. I'm not that kind of person, which is why I'm off the grid. I'm by referrals, usually only, or when I go to events and meet people. That's how I build my list.

It's always trying to get your book out there. Obviously, if you sell through, like I said, you've got it made.

Also, what helps selling through that advance is if your book is right for other countries. They'll sell foreign rights, and all those other things get an advance as well. That goes to pay back the advance that they gave you so you can earn out faster.

Joanna: Fantastic. Well, we're out of time. I do want to just ask—

If people want to pitch you, tell them what you are looking for?

In terms of clients for editing, or whether or not they can contact you.

Renee: Well, I'm usually into like really great writing, really good voices, and really great stories. I mean, it's more easy to tell you what I don't take. I'm not a big fan of the post-apocalyptic depressing books, or erotica, poetry, westerns, the vampire, zombie, etc. as previously said.

I find it very difficult right now for fantasy, like with elves and magic and that other world, for me. There's a lot of other agents out there that do very well with that. I just find that that's not really my thing.

I do enjoy great chick lit, although the editors don't seem to. I love humor, if it makes me laugh, especially. Thrillers, mysteries, all that. Also, I don't do children's books, even though my career was in that. I don't take picture books or middle grade. I do handle YA. Again, it's got to be based on story. You know, that's the clincher.

Joanna: Nonfiction? Memoir?

Renee: Oh, absolutely. I do a lot of nonfiction. If you guys go to my agency site, GHliterary.com, you'll see the book covers that we've done. I've done a lot of nonfiction.

If you go to ReneeFountain.com, under the tab of my work you'll see a lot of the books that I helped get out there, and worked on proposals with the authors, and edited the books, etc. I think that's a great place to start there because it kind of hones down to specifically me more on that site.

Joanna: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for your time, Renee. That was great.

Renee: I appreciate your time. It was great to be here.

The post Preparing Your Manuscript For Pitching Agents With Renee Fountain first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
How can you make sure your manuscript is ready for submission to an agent — or for publication if you go indie? What are the benefits and challenges of traditional publishing? Will they really do all the marketing for you? How can you make sure your manuscript is ready for submission to an agent — or for publication if you go indie? What are the benefits and challenges of traditional publishing? Will they really do all the marketing for you? Renee Fountain talks about these things and more in today's interview.



In the intro, Referencing and citations [Self Publishing Advice]; will.i.am on the WSJ talking about AI, music and media; Behind the scenes of Pilgrimage [BookBrunch]; how a chapel visit in Zambia led to a published short story [X @mwanabibi]






This episode is sponsored by Publisher Rocket, which will help you get your book in front of more Amazon readers so you can spend less time marketing and more time writing. I use Publisher Rocket for researching book titles, categories, and keywords — for new books and for updating my backlist. Check it out at www.PublisherRocket.com



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Renee Fountain has more than three decades in the publishing industry, including being a literary agent, a developmental editor, and story analyst. She is the president of Gandolfo Helin & Fountain Literary Management and founder of Gryphon Quill Editing.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Main issues seen with manuscript submissions



* Is your manuscript overwritten?



* Tips on pacing



* What is developmental editing?



* Key elements of a pitch package and query letter



* Will traditional publishers do all the marketing for you?



* Using an agent to get a TV or film deal vs. going indie



* Dealing with rejection



* Cash flow management in traditional publishing




You can find Renee at GHliterary.com or ReneeFountain.com.



Transcript of Interview with Renee Fountain



Joanna: Renee Fountain has more than three decades in the publishing industry, including being a literary agent, a developmental editor, and story analyst. She is the president of Gandolfo Helin & Fountain Literary Management and founder of Gryphon Quill Editing. So welcome to the show, Renee.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 59:34
Turn Words Into Wealth With Aurora Winter https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/01/turn-words-into-wealth-with-aurora-winter/ Mon, 01 Jul 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36322 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/01/turn-words-into-wealth-with-aurora-winter/#comments https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/01/turn-words-into-wealth-with-aurora-winter/feed/ 2 <p>Can you have a business with a soul through writing? How does the business of fiction differ from non-fiction? What are some tips for pitching a book for film & TV? All this and more with Aurora Winter. In the intro, 100 book marketing ideas [Written Word Media]; 25 indie authors tips to finding success […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/07/01/turn-words-into-wealth-with-aurora-winter/">Turn Words Into Wealth With Aurora Winter</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Can you have a business with a soul through writing? How does the business of fiction differ from non-fiction? What are some tips for pitching a book for film & TV? All this and more with Aurora Winter.

In the intro, 100 book marketing ideas [Written Word Media]; 25 indie authors tips to finding success [Self Publishing Advice]; BookFunnel for audiobooks; Bookfunnel as landing page for Facebook Ads; TIME signs licensing deal with OpenAI; ALCS AI licensing survey; my 2020 book on AI for authors and publishing.

Plus, Corfu on Instagram and proving I am human; In My Time of Dying by Sebastian Junger; Eruption by Michael Crichton and James Patterson; De-Extinction of the Nephilim on JFPennBooks; Other stores].

draft2digital

Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Aurora Winter is the multi-award-winning author of nonfiction business books and teen fantasy novels, as well as a publisher, TV producer, and serial entrepreneur.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • How writing can help people during difficult times
  • Actionable ways to turn grief into gratitude
  • Tips for pitching to producers
  • The importance of patience and connections in the film industry
  • How self-development can lead to increased opportunities
  • How and when to delegate tasks to a virtual assistant
  • The neuroscience behind effective pitches

You can find Aurora at AuroraWinter.com, and her latest book at MagicMysteryAndTheMultiverse.com.

Transcript of Interview with Aurora Winter

Joanna: Aurora Winter is the multi-award-winning author of nonfiction business books and teen fantasy novels, as well as a publisher, TV producer, and serial entrepreneur. So welcome to the show, Aurora.

Aurora: It's so great to be on the show with you, Joanna.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you. First up—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Aurora: Well, my life changed when I was just nine years old, and I first read the Narnia series by CS Lewis. As I reached for the last book in that series, I just felt such a thrill of anticipation, but also anticipatory grief.

I realized the moment that my little nine-year-old hand touched that book, that writers are kinds of wizards. That with just ink on white paper, we can transport the reader to another place in time, even somewhere that doesn't even exist.

In that moment, my little nine-year-old heart decided I would do whatever it took to become a great writer, like CS Lewis, and I'm still working on that.

Then CS Lewis changed my life a second time after my husband died suddenly. He was only 33, and our son was four. I read CS Lewis's book, A Grief Observed, which was later made into a movie, and that book so touched me because he was willing to share those mad midnight moments. It allowed me to feel like it's okay, I can get through this. So two times, once when I was 31, and once when I was nine, CS Lewis changed my life, and he was already dead.

What better way to leave a lasting legacy and help other people than to write books? What better way to uplift, inform, and inspire others?

Joanna: How did you get from the nine year old who really wanted to write—we're going to come back to the grief—but you have had loads of businesses. As I said, you're like a serial entrepreneur. You've done loads. So was it a case like many of us, that it was just not a proper job to go into writing? How did you end up back in writing?

Aurora: When I went to university, my father who's an economist, scoffed at me when I said that I wanted to major in English. He's like, there's no money in that, do something sensible. So I studied economics, I have an MBA now.

Yet, I always had this passion for writing. So I took a minor in languages and literature, and I never stopped writing. I was writing journals, or as a nine-year-old, I wrote little illustrated stories that never got beyond chapter three.

Then eventually, one thing leads to another. I actually got sick, to be honest. I was running a profitable business with my husband. We had launched a yacht sales company, it was a seven-figure business. We sold $3 million of boats in one week when I was pregnant.

I'm like, okay, this is a very lucrative business, and yet my soul was sick. I was missing writing. So after my baby was born, I got up at 4 a.m. to write, and then I looked after the baby, and then I did the accounting for the company, and I got sick. I got chronic fatigue syndrome, or Epstein Barr.

I realized I couldn't put my soul aside forever, that there would be a price to pay. So I went back into writing screenplays.

Then, this is a little mini miracle, can you believe it, a feature film came to shoot in Vancouver, BC, Canada, where I lived at the time. The production manager for John Badham, who directed the movie Stakeout and Bird on a Wire called and said, “Hey, we need to use a boat. Can we rent one of your boats?”

I heard my husband answering the phone, “We don't rent boats. We've got brand new $200,000 boats for sale.” I'm like, “Wait a minute, hold on! Hang on a second. I'm a screenwriter. Yes, we do rent boats if it's John Badham calling.”

So my husband skippered the boat and I crewed. I met Mel Gibson and Goldie Hawn, and the first assistant director on that shoot Peter Marshall and I became friends. Later he hired me to write the first screenplay that I wrote for real money.

So what are the chances that the universe would actually bring that right to me? Then through various other miracles, my life changed and I ended up in film and television.

Joanna: Wow. Okay, we're going to come back to that. I know it's a difficult topic, but you've written about the death of your husband, and many people listening, I mean, everyone at some point is going to go through grief. Of course, for you, the very early tragic death of your husband.

You've also helped others with grief, which again, you turned your own trouble into helping others.

How can writing help people with difficult times?

If people are going through this right now or it's something that they're suffering, even if they don't want to publish their words, I think that's really important. How can writing help that situation?

Aurora: Well, you wrote about it so beautifully in Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words, which I highly recommend. I love this book, I have it right by my night table. It's a beautiful addition that you did on Kickstarter.

What you just said about even if it's not being published, I think that's the first thing to lean into. Write for yourself at first. Don't think about publishing at first, especially if you're writing about grief. Writers pay attention. The act of writing is paying attention.

You would be surprised how you can alchemize pain into wisdom, grief into gratitude, if you take the time to first vent and just get all that stuff out on the page.

Then later, for example, my first published book, From Heartbreak to Happiness, which was endorsed by Dr. Wayne Dyer, my hero, was simply my diary of healing through grief.

When I reread my diary, I was floored to notice how many times my prayers had been answered, but I hadn't been grateful at the time because the prayers were answered three months later, six months later. I hadn't noticed, hey, I prayed for that.

There is value in writing and in reviewing what you have written. That will bring you greater wisdom.

So my 90-day challenge for the listeners is write every day, even for five minutes in your journal. Read every day, you can start with reading the book Writing the Shadow by Joanna Penn, it's amazing. Then review what you have written once a week.

If you do that for 90 days, I promise you, your life will transform. You will start to notice the things that you are complaining about. If you're still complaining about something 90 days later, you should do something about it, or you should just stop complaining.

You write in your book, Writing the Shadow, about how grateful you were that you were in so much pain working in IT that you finally shifted.

There's value in pain, and if we're complaining or suffering, either we need to accept, forgive, or release.

The past will never change, but we do have the present moment we can change. So there's a great value in writing about grief or any kind of suffering that you're going through.

Joanna: Yes, I mean, you said it before about “my soul was sick.” Sometimes we do have to be in those very difficult places. I'm not saying, obviously, that people should die, but people do die. That is the reality of life. Turning that, as you said, into gratitude is amazing.

I do just want to say there for reviewing what we've written, I do read back some of my journals from like 20 years ago, and some things never change, but we hope that other things move on.

Aurora: Yes. Well, I've studied happiness extensively, as you mentioned. I later launched a company called The Grief Coach Academy, which is being run by an amazing woman now, Audrey White. So it continues on, although I've gone on to focus on other things.

I created a systemized process for releasing and transforming grief into gratitude.

Anyway, one of the key things that everybody can do, you can do this starting now, and I did it last night, I do it every night, is just list three things that you're grateful for.

You can write it down, or what I do is just as I'm falling asleep, I think about the day, and I acknowledge three things that happened during the day that I can be grateful for.

You can deepen this practice by acknowledging how your character trait or your choices helped lead to that happy thing. For example, last night, I was grateful that I've just bought a car for my son. He got a nice 2019 BMW i3, and he's like all happy and skippy about it.

So I was grateful for the prosperity to be able to help him buy a car. I was grateful that he was so happy. Also, I noticed that it shifted his identity, which is the highest leverage thing you can do for another person, as Tony Robbins would say. So that is one of the simple things everybody can do. It's a happiness hack. It takes like three minutes, and I recommend you do it daily.

Joanna: Actually, on that, I can go even faster. I use Notes on my iPhone, and I just dictate. I have found that dictating just means it's almost less repetitive.

Some days you're grateful for the same things, and you think, is it worth being grateful for this again? But yes it is, and those are the things we don't want to change. So yes, I found dictation actually makes a real difference.

So coming back to the film and TV because I find this really interesting. You had an interview recently on the Self-Publishing Advice site where —

You mentioned the importance of writing a book, not a screenplay, if you want to pitch for film and TV, which is something I also learned recently.

So can you talk a bit about this, why writing a book is better, because you have written screenplays as well. Give us any other tips for pitching IP to producers that don't involve licensing boats!

Aurora: Yes, that's probably not too repeatable, so here's how I can help the listeners. I have a background in film and television, I worked for Canada's largest film and television production company. I worked as a vice president of another production company in the States in Los Angeles.

Then I launched my own film and television production company. We raised $5 million to that and made eight films. So I have about, I don't know, 300 hours of production that I was connected with in some ways.

My development budget when I was working in Toronto was one and a half million dollars just to develop projects, and I have never optioned the screenplay from a first-time screenwriter. It did not happen. It doesn't happen. But so many times I would option books.

So there is a very common thing in film and television to option a book. So most of the listeners are authors, take advantage of that.

The second thing is I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I know, you cannot copyright an idea, you can only copyright a specific expression of an idea.

A book asserts your copyright.

I actually had the personal experience of pitching a TV series to a very large US broadcaster that you would know the name of, but I won't say it. My business partner at the time signed the release that they make you sign when you pitch something, which basically says we might be pitched something similar.

Anyway, they basically stole the idea for the TV series, and they made it, but I didn't see a dime. So there's a risk when you're just pitching a treatment or a screenplay that having a book helps mitigate.

Also with the book, you've got something. An unsold screenplay just gathers dust.

With a book that can be optioned as a screenplay, you can get awards, sales, proof of concept. You can make some momentum.

Joanna: There's a great book called Hollywood Vs. the Author, which I always recommend. It tells people how to protect themselves.

I feel like sometimes we focus so much on protecting our work, we don't actually get it in front of people. I think that's kind of the opposite issue. So any tips on pitching, to get our books in front of people?

Aurora: Well, absolutely. I'm actually going to the Banff Media Festival in the beginning of June with two of my clients because I help people out with their books and help them pitch. So what you want to do is —

You want to get your pitch down to be really clear.

So for example, my fantasy series Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, that pitch is it's basically “Harry Potter meets Doctor Who.” So you want it to be that tight, and then you can go on from there. Then if somebody's interested, you can tell them a little bit more.

So about Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, in addition to saying it's like Harry Potter meets Doctor Who, I can say it won the American Fiction Award for best preteen book, and it won the Reader’s Choice Award and several other awards. So, already that's enough for somebody to go, “You know what, I only do thrillers. I'm not interested in YA fantasy,” or they can say, “Tell me more.”

So for example, I'm meeting with BBC again in a couple of weeks. They expressed interest in a 12-part half hour series. We'll see if that goes anywhere. Interest is not a deal, interest is not a greenlight.

Now that I have interest from BBC, I can meet with Paramount or Warner Brothers or Universal or Netflix and say, hey, they're interested, are you interested? Then we can perhaps get it get a deal.

Joanna: Yes, and it takes so long, doesn't it? This is the other thing I feel people don't realize is that it's also about relationships. It's interesting that you got into it because you met that person on the boat all those years ago. Then you got into it, and then things develop.

So I think that's the other thing, if you really want your book and you want to see something on the screen—

Patience and connections make all the difference.

Aurora: There was an interesting story about the Banff Film Festival. So after my husband died, just shortly thereafter, maybe six months after, a friend of mine was trying to drag me to a party for people in film in Vancouver. I'm like, I don't want to go, I don't feel like it.

He's like, “You are moping, and I don't blame you for grieving, but you're getting out of the house now. Get dressed.” So anyway, I went to the party and ended up sitting beside somebody I didn't know.

He said, “Oh, what do you do?” So I told him I was a screenwriter. He said, “Oh, well, what are you writing?” Then I told him what I was writing because I got all excited about it. He's like, “I think you should represent the province of British Columbia and pitch that at the Banff Film and Television Festival.”

I'm like, what? Who are you? Turned out I happened to be sitting by the head of film for British Columbia BC Film Commission. Anyway, so then I had a moment of do I say no or do I say yes. This is a tip everybody can do.

When you are invited to do something outside of your comfort zone, take a deep breath and say yes.

I said yes. Then I got a phone call the next day from a producer. She's like, “Well, would you mind if I followed you around and did a documentary film of you and a couple of the people who are pitching?”

I'm like, okay, yes. So then my shoulder went into spasm just before the pitch. So I'm like, oh, no, I'm going to pitch as a first-time screenwriter who has nothing produced, who has no momentum—who can sell boats, though—to 600 film and television executives. If they miss it because they're not in the room, they can watch it later on national television.

Joanna: Wow.

Aurora: But anyway, that pitch for that screenplay created a bidding war, and my agent fielded offers from Spelling and Universal and other places. That basically ended up changing my life. So the right words, at the right time, to the right people can change your life.

That launched, initially, a six-figure deal, and then went on to create, basically, multiple-million dollar business creating film and television. So it was all because I was willing to say yes and step into something I was not comfortable about. Later, they used the documentary to teach the art of pitching in the Banff Film school, so that was kind of cool.

Joanna: That is cool. I also want to note that you are clearly someone who reads a lot of self-help books and is very into self-development. I think this is a very important thing, too. I feel like you've obviously invested in yourself. I used to listen to Tony Robbins audios back in the day as well.

By changing your mindset, you changed your actions, and that led to these opportunities.

I feel that so often people almost expect these things to happen. Even though you're saying that it happened quite quickly, I feel like you put in a lot of work on yourself in order to be in that position.

Aurora: Thank you for acknowledging that. Yes, a lot of work on myself. It's a never-ending process. I remember that at one point you said something like you wanted to be like the female version of Tony Robbins, and I think you're doing a brilliant job.

Joanna: The quiet one!

Aurora: Yes, an introverted one. It never ends, you know, working on yourself is the most valuable thing you can do.

Joanna: Yes, and I noticed that we both have Learner and Strategic in our top five Clifton Strengths.

Aurora: Yes, we have a lot in common there.

Joanna: Which I thought was interesting, because I mean, we do love learning. I think this makes all the difference. Just going back to your business, so you have a book called Turn Words Into Wealth: Blueprint for Your Business, Brand, and Book. It has a lot of ideas about how to make more money with books. I'm interested because you've done so many different types of writing—

What do you see as the difference between the business models of fiction and nonfiction? How do these play out in your business now?

Aurora: I think fiction has so many opportunities for movies and merchandising. As I mentioned, BBC is interested in my fantasy series Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse. If that deal goes, that will be extremely lucrative.

Also, merchandising. That's a YA fantasy, a young adult fantasy, so there's so many things in that novel that could be t-shirts, cups, but also there's like some cool magical cuffs, kind of like Wonder Woman cuffs that the protagonist Anna has. So those are merchandising opportunities.

Sometimes nonfiction can be turned into movies, like The Secret is an example of that. Or Marie Kondo's The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, which shockingly became a Netflix special—I'm sorry, Netflix series—even though English is not her first language because people like to watch other people who are hoarders tidy up.

Joanna: I was just thinking, I watched that series.

Aurora: I definitely learned how to fold from her.

Joanna: Yes, how to fold. Exactly.

Aurora: So nonfiction is stronger at helping you get speaking engagements, or getting on podcasts, or consulting or training. In fact, nonfiction books can be used to build any business that has some kind of expertise.

Both fiction and nonfiction can help you put your hat in the ring for the highest paid profession, which is speaking. So in the book Turn Words Into Wealth, I go in depth into seven different models to create seven figures with your business.

Not all the models will work for you or for your particular book, but take a look and choose one, and then implement it strategically.

Joanna: Easier said than done, obviously. I've embraced who I am at this point, that I'm a multi-passionate creator. We'll come back to the entrepreneurial side. I also like to do everything myself, which is a strength and a weakness.

So I feel like I have a lot of these streams, but I have to split my attention between the different streams. Thus, they each become, I guess, less effective.

Have you got any tips for people like me, perhaps who can do lots of different things and want to create lots of different things, but for whom focus is a weakness?

Aurora: People like you? You mean people like us. I feel like I'm pretty much the same. I have the same strengths and flaws.

I want to acknowledge that the fact that you write both fiction and nonfiction really helped me give myself permission to start writing fiction again in 2020 because I had taken a pause from that. I wrote fiction when I was writing screenplays, and then I wrote only nonfiction as an author.

Okay, so here's some tips for outsourcing. Firstly, bad mistake that I've made, don't do this, don't first delegate to your VA, “handle my email.” That is a difficult task and not easy to systematize.

Assign a repeatable task that can be systematized, tracked, and measured. Then allow some time to train the person and track and measure results.

Here's an example. So like two months ago, I hired a new virtual assistant, but all I gave her to do is just one task. She only books me on podcasts. Then now that she's got the system down, I could give her more tasks, but how do I measure her results?

Like most people have virtual assistants who are working remotely. It's hard to know if they're working ten hours, or one hour, forty hours. So I told her just track how many podcasts you book.

So I know how many she books per month, I know how many hours she's charging, and we both know that is the criteria by which you will be judged. So that is useful, and now that she's got that down, I could give her some other tasks to do.

Or another example, I thought this was a rather good use of the strategic. I've got strategic, activator, learner, relator, maximizer, and strategic in Clifton Strengths. So I use some of those skills.

When I wanted to hire a cover designer for Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, I wanted to have a great cover. But what does it really matter what I think is a great cover? What matters is what kind of covers are actually selling in fantasy.

So I reverse engineered it, and you can do this too. I looked at independently published fantasy books that were best sellers, using K-lytics as the research to give me that data.

Then I looked at those books, and I looked at their covers, and I looked inside the ones that I liked the covers for the cover designer, and then I contacted that cover designer.

So that was more effortful than maybe going through Reedsy, or 99designs or DesignCrowd or Upwork, but the result is an award-winning cover that hit the market's bullseye. So those are two little tips that I think listeners can find useful.

Joanna: How do you find people to help you? How did you find that VA?

Aurora: I asked my friends, who have you worked with as VA that that you'd recommend?

Joanna: Okay, so personal recommendations.

Aurora: I have had actually really good success. I have a great assistant that I found on Upwork who does a lot of behind the scenes. There's so many formatting, reformatting, and re-uploading books and covers, and tweak this, and oh no, we won another award, put that on the thing.

So I have somebody that has done that for me. I've done many covers on Upwork. I have another cover designer I work with on Reedsy for a series of legal thrillers that I'm working with the client Michael Stockham on. You know, he's a New York Times bestselling cover designer.

I think the best thing is not to try to find one person to do everything, but zero in on what is a repeatable task that you need done, and who is the best person to do it.

Joanna: This is definitely one of my weaknesses. I do have some people, and I have had other people over the years, but when it's like, well, who's the best person to do this? It's often, well I am, clearly I'm the best person.

Aurora: I want to comment on that. Yes, we have to get over that. Like I noticed with myself, I am a recovering perfectionist, and still only partly recovered. So it does trip me up. Like I know I would be the best person.

I wouldn't be the best person to do a cover design, but I would be the best person to book myself on podcasts. I wanted to be on Joanna Penn's podcast, so I reached out to her personally because it mattered to me.

We have to get over that because there's only so many hours in the day. If your time is worth $500 an hour or $1,500 an hour, as Joanna Penn's is probably, then if you're doing $20 an hour tasks, this is not a wise sacrifice.

We are sacrificing doing a great job at something, say Joanna Penn is the only one who can write her thrillers, nobody else can do that. So if she's also, I don't know, uploading audios to have her podcast broadcast widely, and she could delegate that, that would be better.

Joanna: That would be better. Actually, it's really funny, as we record this, I have just finally outsourced my podcast production process, only after 15 years.

Aurora: Okay, okay.

Joanna: So I get a point for outsourcing. My cleaner was here today, so I mean, this is another point.

It doesn't have to be that you outsource stuff around your author business. For me, paying for a cleaner means that I can spend that time working on my book.

So I feel like there are different things we can do in our lives to value the things that we can do. I mean, sometimes you do have to bootstrap things. People might not have the money.

One of the first things I did when I started out as an author is I did hire a bookkeeper. I was like, I am not reconciling all of these things, like that is not something I want to do.

So my first virtual assistant was a bookkeeper. So I feel like we do this one thing at a time, but as you get more into practice, you can do it more.

Aurora: Another quick little tip, like I find myself sometimes feeling annoyed and resentful when I'm uploading a book, again, to KDP because the cover art designer, I don't know, had a typo or something.

Then I catch myself, I'm like, “Aurora, you're choosing to do this yourself because you love this fantasy project. It really matters to you, and you want to baby it along until it gets a little bit more life.” So like I coach myself to be grateful in that moment.

If I notice a pattern of ongoing, “Ugh, I can't believe I'm doing this,” it's time for me to look for somebody else to do that.

For example, my son totally made my day because he did a whole bunch of art for the fantasy series on NightCafe, and the images blew me away.

It gave me this surge of creativity about the project. He's got a bachelor in Game Art and Design, so Bachelor of Science, so he knows how to do cover art and to do much more quickly than I do. It gave me such a surge. So there can be a lot of value in in delegating as well.

Joanna: Yes, I definitely outsource my cover design. Although I am having fun with AI art as well. I think NightCafe has a lot of AI tools. Super fun.

Just coming back on that, the kind of outsourcing, returning to the screenwriting and pitching things.

Now, I think most authors, like 99% of authors, would like an agent to pitch their projects, even if they're an independent author. That can be a difficult sell because with most literary agents, you're pitching them for the whole book, for all the publishing and things like that. How are you managing that as an independent author?

Aurora: Like you, I have freedom as one of my top values. Actually, it's my top value. I think it is for both of us. So in the book, Turn Words Into Wealth, I go in depth about why I believe that independent publishing and independent pitching, and getting over this whole thought that you need a big publisher or you need an agent, is the best strategy.

So in my experience, it's harder for you, or for anyone, to pitch an agent than to pitch the project. So I think, in my experience, the most valuable skill is to learn how to use your words, so that the right words, at the right time, can change your life when you say them to the right people.

Rather than get caught up in the like 1990 mindset that you need an agent or you need a big publisher, why not learn how to pitch.

Then maybe you'll join me next year at the Banff Film and Television Festival, or join me at Napier, or join me in Cannes, and pitch it.

Nobody is going to be better at pitching your project than you are, but you do need to practice and decide that it's worth your time. Just really quick on that, it is worth your time.

There's a really great book called Significant Objects. They put one hundred different objects on eBay, with or without story that added significance. It wasn't a pitch, it was a significance. For example, “These are my grandmother's pot mitts. I remember coming home from school and she would bake us chocolate chip cookies, and it was amazing.”

There's no value to me in buying those pot mitts because you had cookies from your grandma, but it added significance, and the value increase was 27-fold. So adding a story adds value to the listener. I mean, I've shared a few stories today with Joanna Penn. Probably one of them is going to stick with you, I don't know which one.

If it's worth the time for somebody like Steve Jobs to practice his Apple launch pitch and presentation for three weeks when he is running a huge company, then I think it's worth all of our time as authors to get good at pitching what we're up to.

Joanna: Do you have any resources that you recommend, in terms of books or courses around pitching particularly?

Aurora: I really like the book Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff. I also like what you just said about gratitude and you recording it on audio. Record yourself on video or audio, and you'll kind of notice if you pay attention that, oh, I talked too long about that. Then get it tighter and tighter.

It's one of the things I do with my clients. Like one of my clients yesterday, he's got a 10-minute meeting with Universal or something, I think it was a big company anyway. So he's practiced what is he going to say in that 10 minutes.

So when you learn about neuroscience, I studied neuroscience, you want to understand the process of how to pitch something. So there's basically three steps because you need to address the three different brain portions that we have.

So he rehearsed this with me yesterday. You can rehearse with yourself or with a friend. Basically, the first thing to do is address the croc brain. Then second thing to do is address the midbrain. Then the third thing to do is you can then address the cerebral cortex.

Most people, especially educated people, try to just address the cerebral cortex. It's the verbal equivalent of sending a complete stranger an Excel spreadsheet by email. They're not going to open it.

So the simple analogy is the croc brain is the ancient reptilian brain. It's looking for, is this sexy? Is this exciting? Is this glittery? Is it something to mate with or snack on? Is it attractive? So that would be the equivalent of your subject line in an email.

So for Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, that equivalent to that is, you know, it's like Harry Potter meets Doctor Who. Those are two of the very best fantasy bestsellers of all time. Doctor Who was the longest running TV series, just as an aside.

Or with the book, Turn Words into Wealth, the title is addressing the croc brain. It's kind of like, what is this about? So people who are interested in turning their words into wealth were like, okay, tell me more. So your first step addressing the croc brain should be very quick, a couple of seconds.

The second step is to address the midbrain. Human beings survived for so long because we were not alone. We survived as tribes, as communities, as families. We are hyper vigilant for social status.

So for example, even being on this podcast with Joanna Penn, it creates social status because Joanna thinks I'm worth talking to. Conversely, if you happen to know me, I think Joanna is worth talking to. So that enhances both of our social status.

When you're pitching your book, you want to address the second thing next, the social status.

So for Turn Words Into Wealth, I say that it's won Outstanding Nonfiction Book of the Year in its category, which is publishing.

For Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, I say that it won the American Fiction Award Best Preteen Book in 2023, and it also won the Reader’s Choice Award in 2023. Then in 2024, it was a finalist in the UK Wishing Shelf, which is really cool because they have 150 kids actually read the books.

Okay, so for whatever your project or book is, what is the second step for you? How could you indicate that other people who are awesome think it's good?

For example, my first published book, From Heartbreak to Happiness, Dr. Wayne Dyer endorsed it. He said, “I read every page of this beautiful diary. It touched my heart, and I'm sure it will impact yours.” Okay, so each of those is an example of doing the second step around the midbrain.

Then the third step, now that you've got people listening, then you can go into more depth. Either give them the synopsis or the plot summary, or whatever you'd like to do with that.

So for Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, it would be: Anna is a 13-year-old girl who wants to be an actress. She grew up in Los Angeles. Her father is a very busy and distracted film producer who's off to shoot a movie in Africa.

So he sends his daughter Anna and his son Zachary to London to be with his brother and to go to boarding school while he's busy shooting a movie. So they arrived in London, they're all excited. They want to see the Tower of London, but there's something even more interesting in their uncle's garage.

It's this experimental car. He says, “Just stay away from the experimental car, I've got to go out for a bit.” Of course, that's like a magnet. The kids jump in the experimental car, and Anna, who is an optimist and a little bit reckless, fiddles with it and pushes the button to go on a random joy ride.

This takes the kids off the planet Earth to another planet entirely in the multiverse. When they land, they get into trouble immediately because their vehicle is out of fuel. And oh, no, they happen to land on somebody and apparently kill her.

This gives them instant friends because the person they killed is notoriously evil, and instant enemies because other people are out to get vengeance. So then the rest of the story is about will Anna be able to get back to planet Earth?

Her brother gets kidnapped, will she be able to save him? Will the forces of evil on Telesora be overcome by Anna and her brother? Or will the reverse happen, and we will never see the kids again? So that's what Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse is about.

So the third step is the longest step, where you give a bit more detail about whatever you're up to. So between each one of these three steps, you want to pause so that the other person has a chance to say something so that it's more of a conversation.

So I go into more detail in Turn Words Into Wealth about how to use the neuroscience of communication, but hopefully that made sense.

Joanna: Yes, I think it's so important. As you say, this is a preteen book, and then someone says, well, actually, I'm looking for horror books. Then that's probably not a good match.

Often I feel people are pitching and pitching, but they're not thinking about the person on the other side.

So as you say, even you can say one line. Then are they actually interested or do they completely blank?

I want to come back on social status.

Have you found at all that being an independent author has meant that you have a lower social status?

Or has it just not even been an issue with this?

Aurora: I used to really worry about that and fretted that that was the case. I'm over it now. It's whatever it is, right? I feel like I have status for other things, but I'm not a Colleen Hoover, I'm not a New York Times bestselling author. There's things I don't have.

For all of the listeners, there's things that you're strong at. I have launched multiple seven-figure businesses from scratch. That's pretty kick ass. I've got a background in film and television, and that's pretty kick ass. I have success knowing how to start something from scratch and make it work, that's awesome. Plus, I have written ten books. That's quite a few.

So I am not willing to care more about what other people think of me than what I think of me. For me, I'm a very independent, very entrepreneurial, freedom focused person. Why would I want to have a publisher to dilute or mute or change my message? I don't.

In fact, in the book Turn Words Into Wealth, I give a number of examples, but the one that I liked the most is David Goggins, who wrote the book Can't Hurt Me. He's a Navy Seal and a long-distance runner, a pretty amazing athlete.

He met with an agent in New York who told him that if he self-published his book, he'd be lucky to sell 5000 copies. He decided to self-publish, and he's dyslexic, so he had to hire a ghostwriter to write it.

Then he went on over a thousand podcasts to market it, and the result is he probably made $20 million from his book and his audiobook. He sold over a million copies of the book in the first year and 600,000 copies of the audiobook.

If he had gone with traditional wisdom, he would have seen a fraction of that, and maybe he wouldn't have been able to afford to spend so much time doing the podcast.

Why give up 90% of the revenue when you still have to do 90% of the work?

Joanna: Yes. I mean, there are pros and cons for everyone. I didn't know David Goggins had gone indie. That's really interesting.

We're almost out of time, so I do want to just come to a final thing. So in Turn Words Into Wealth you say, “There is more opportunity and more danger than ever before due to exponential technological, social, and economic change.”

Now, obviously, I talk a lot about surfing this wave of change. AI, in particular, direct sales, and all of this. So given you're always learning, always changing direction—

What are your recommendations for making the most of this extraordinary, but also difficult, time?

Aurora: Well, I have a couple of tips. First tip, keep listening to The Creative Penn podcast.

Joanna: I didn't even pay you for this!

Aurora: It's true. It's a godsend for leaning into this with excitement instead of terror.

Secondly, have fun. For example, those NightCafe images that my son did yesterday for Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse, like they made my day. They were so much fun, and now they've sparked a bunch of things that I'm going to write, just by seeing the images. I also put them on TikToks.

Allocate time for learning.

This is something I needed to coax myself into because I would get impatient. When I shifted my mindset and leaned into my learner Clifton Strengths and allocate time for learning, then that helped me reframe it.

Instead of a frustrating thing that I had to learn, like a good thing that I had to learn. So a couple of things that I am playing with, pick one of these maybe, and do them. There's Authors.ai, PickFu.com, Descript. Joanna has talked about ChatGPT, and SudoWrite, and ProWritingAid, or NightCafe. Like pick one, and maybe spend a little time playing with it.

Joanna: I feel like leaning into that curiosity, there are so many things to look at. I mean, for example, music. I'm not into music at all, but a lot of authors are, and there's so many music discovery tools and creation tools that I know people are playing with. That's not my bag. I don't do that.

I play with the image stuff as well, and of course, the various writing tools. It's really listening to your curiosity. If you hate something, don't force yourself.

Do the things that are interesting to you. It might be a challenge at first, but you might discover things you really enjoy.

Aurora: Exactly right. The same thing with marketing. Don't try to do all kinds of possible marketing. Double down on the ones that make sense for you.

Like I love talking on podcasts, so I do podcasts. I do TikTok, and I do Kickstarter. That's it. Those are my three things. I can't do everything, so I picked the three things that are the most fun or interesting for me.

Joanna: Absolutely.

Where can people find you, and your books, and everything you do online?

Aurora: Oh, thanks for asking, Joanna. Well, I am launching the second book in my Magic, Mystery and the Multiverse series. I would love, love, love if people would follow me on Kickstarter.

You can go to MagicMysteryAndTheMultiverse.com, and it will redirect you to Kickstarter when Kickstarter is live. Otherwise it will give you other goodies when Kickstarter is not live. Just a little tip. If you do a Kickstarter, do a redirect so that you can take advantage of sending people to somewhere else after the Kickstarter is not live.

My book Turn Words Into Wealth, which we talked about today, is available on Amazon. If you'd like some gift videos and the gift Thought Leader Launch starter library, you can get that on my website AuroraWinter.com. Thanks so much, Joanna. It was really fun to do this podcast with you.

Joanna: Thanks so much for coming on, Aurora. That was great.

The post Turn Words Into Wealth With Aurora Winter first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
Can you have a business with a soul through writing? How does the business of fiction differ from non-fiction? What are some tips for pitching a book for film & TV? All this and more with Aurora Winter. In the intro, Can you have a business with a soul through writing? How does the business of fiction differ from non-fiction? What are some tips for pitching a book for film & TV? All this and more with Aurora Winter.



In the intro, 100 book marketing ideas [Written Word Media]; 25 indie authors tips to finding success [Self Publishing Advice]; BookFunnel for audiobooks; Bookfunnel as landing page for Facebook Ads; TIME signs licensing deal with OpenAI; ALCS AI licensing survey; my 2020 book on AI for authors and publishing.



Plus, Corfu on Instagram and proving I am human; In My Time of Dying by Sebastian Junger; Eruption by Michael Crichton and James Patterson; De-Extinction of the Nephilim on JFPennBooks; Other stores].






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Aurora Winter is the multi-award-winning author of nonfiction business books and teen fantasy novels, as well as a publisher, TV producer, and serial entrepreneur.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How writing can help people during difficult times



* Actionable ways to turn grief into gratitude



* Tips for pitching to producers



* The importance of patience and connections in the film industry



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:12:22
Writing Hard Truths And Tips For Writing Non-Fiction With Efren Delgado https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/24/writing-hard-truths-and-tips-for-writing-non-fiction-with-efren-delgado/ Mon, 24 Jun 2024 04:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36304 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/24/writing-hard-truths-and-tips-for-writing-non-fiction-with-efren-delgado/#respond https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/24/writing-hard-truths-and-tips-for-writing-non-fiction-with-efren-delgado/feed/ 0 <p>How do we write authentic humanity into our books, whether that's our own experience or a fictional character's? How can we embrace the challenges of life and the author journey and make the most of the opportunities along the way? Efren Delgado gives his tips in this interview. In the intro, How to plan and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/24/writing-hard-truths-and-tips-for-writing-non-fiction-with-efren-delgado/">Writing Hard Truths And Tips For Writing Non-Fiction With Efren Delgado</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How do we write authentic humanity into our books, whether that's our own experience or a fictional character's? How can we embrace the challenges of life and the author journey and make the most of the opportunities along the way? Efren Delgado gives his tips in this interview.

In the intro, How to plan and release a second edition of your book [SelfPublishingAdvice]; plus, Kickstarter update; Stone carving a green man; De-Extinction of the Nephilim [JFPennBooks; other stores];

ProWritingAid

Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with writing software, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 15% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Efren Delgado is a former FBI special agent with 25 years of national security, law enforcement, and private protection experience. He's also a consultant, professional speaker, and the author of The Opposite is True: Discover Your Unexpected Enemies, Allies, and Purpose Through the Eyes of Counterintuitive Psychology.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Balancing being authentic while maintaining your boundaries
  • How to take our failures and move on to success
  • Creating a mind map to help during the brainstorming process
  • Fact checking and managing citations when writing nonfiction
  • Writing to deal with trauma while avoiding using it as therapy
  • Uncomfortable truths indie authors need to face about the industry
  • Common misconceptions authors get wrong when writing FBI thrillers

You can find Efren at EfrenDelgado.com.

Transcript of Interview with Efren Delgado

Joanna: Efren Delgado is a former FBI special agent with 25 years of national security, law enforcement, and private protection experience.

He's also a consultant, professional speaker, and the author of The Opposite is True: Discover Your Unexpected Enemies, Allies, and Purpose Through the Eyes of Counterintuitive Psychology. So welcome to the show, Efren.

Efren: Thank you, Joanna. I've been looking forward to this.

Joanna: Yes, it's very exciting. First off—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you went from FBI agent to author.

Efren: I'm going to backtrack a little bit. It all started from a little bit of minor bullying, relatively minor bullying, when I was a child. That planted a basic seed in me just asking, why would people choose to be mean when they could simply be nice? If you think about that question, it's the fundamental question of psychology.

Why do people do what they do? More specifically, why do bad people do what they do?

As a child, I had no idea and a legitimate interest. So that seed was there. It did also inspire me to want to protect others if I ever could.

As I grew up throughout school and university, I developed my interest in psychology and, accidentally, my interest in criminology. I decided to pursue a career in protecting people, and I simply thought the best vehicle for that was the FBI.

So I joined the FBI, I implemented my purpose, you could say, in protecting people in the National Security Division of the FBI, and later the Criminal Division, what most people think of when they think of the FBI. Then later in the private sector, protecting people as a bodyguard and a threat assessment consultant.

Now, currently as a writer, author, speaker, I'm just trying to express the observations I've made to help encourage the “good guys,” your audience and my reader, that they are actually stronger than the bad guys.

They are not chihuahuas barking at the doorbell presenting this large presentation of how scary they are. Good guys actually have the courage to be vulnerable, to be humble, to be kind. That's the main message I want to come across, and that's what brought me to the FBI, and brought me to you today.

Joanna: Yes, and I love the book. We're going to get into it in a minute. I'm fascinated. So you were bullied, and you became a protector. Obviously, a lot of people listening are fiction writers, and so often when we think about writing antagonists, sometimes they may have been bullied and turn into bullies.

Sometimes people who are abused become abusers, whereas some people who are abused become protectors. So just with all your knowledge of psychology and criminal behavior—

How do you think people become the protector instead of the bully in a situation where you came from?

When does it go one way, not the other?

Efren: So I love this question, not only as a protector, but also as an author. The best antagonists, the best protagonists, have elements of both. It's just not one or the other.

So in the writing world, you'll have an antagonist who is this evil villain, but you have these pet the dog moments, and that's showing their humanity, their motive. Their belief might not be that they're actually evil, they actually might think they're doing good, they're just misguided.

Then the opposite is true with the good guys. They're the most interesting protagonists, or characters in general. They have some dichotomy there too. They're not saints, but they show some human vulnerability. So I've seen that in the real world too.

The answer is not as complicated as it seems. The trend, the pattern I've noticed all of my life, and particularly in the criminal world, is —

Good guys are more selfless, and the bad guys are more selfish.

There's a reason for both of those. They always bark at the doorbell, like the analogy I was giving you before, not because they're brave and courageous, but they're so scared that whatever's on the other side will actually see their weaknesses. So they selfishly attack, project, and they're very loud so that nobody dare see what's on their inside.

On the other side, the good people expose themselves to their weaknesses or imperfections, their mortality. That takes courage. That takes risk of being judged, risk of being ridiculed, risk of exposing your humanity, and that's all bravery.

The antagonists are jealous of that bravery. They have that envy. What do people do when they're envious and jealous? They hate. What do you do with things you hate? You attack. That creates your villain.

Joanna: Yes, there's loads in your book that people can mine for their fiction. Absolutely, and of course, I did psychology as well at various levels in my career. So I loved reading all the psychology stuff.

You did mention there that good people expose themselves. That brought me to a quote in your book. This is from the book,

“Most people should not know everything about you. That is privileged information that should be held by the special ones who have earned your trust.”

I found this really interesting dichotomy in the book between these boundaries and keeping things close to you, don't give too much away, but also, like you just said, good people expose themselves, they are authentic. You're having to put yourself out there, and you're talking about things you've done. So how can we balance these things? How are you balancing these things?

Efren: I just think it's really important to acknowledge that if you're human, you're mortal. You have flaws, you have weaknesses, you have insecurities, you have failures. That's what makes us human.

Instead of shrinking away from all of those imperfections, we should embrace our humanity. Even though it's difficult to do, anything worthwhile is difficult. So part of that is acknowledging the concept I talk about, that oil and water, emotion and logic, don't mix. So these insecurities are coming from an emotional place.

So simply acknowledging our imperfections and other people's imperfections, you have to be careful about who you trust with those insecurities, and your secrets, and your goals, your ambitions, because it's very easy for the naysayers, the negative nancies of the world, to tear you down and pull you off your path, or at least distract you from your path.

So I suggest to your audience, to my readers, to be truly dispassionate when you're assessing your associates, your family members, your friends, your colleagues, and be objective.

Recognize the patterns of people who have always been supportive and encouraging, and reward those people with trust in them, with more of your business, your life, your insecurities, your interests, your goals.

Don't be in denial about people who should be your allies, but are not.

Simply because they're blood, or you've known them for 30 years, or you've done business deals with them, if your gut is telling you they're not truly your allies, listen to that.

It's hard enough to seek your purpose and climb your mountain to reach your summit, you don't need to invite other people to pull you down. So I just ask everybody to be truly objective and discerning about who their true wolf pack is, and sometimes you just have to fly alone like an eagle.

Joanna: Just some practicalities, though. Again, with your background and a lot of the details you've included in the book, which as you put in the beginning, you have had to run past the FBI. You haven't shared anything you couldn't share, but you do really put stuff out there that gives away a lot about you.

I imagine there are people out there who might have some issues with you. So how do you balance putting yourself out there in the world to share what you want to with your own safety and this kind of difficult balance? Now, most of us won't be in the situation you are, but—

We all feel vulnerable about sharing things about our life with the public in marketing.

So just practically, how are you doing that? How do you balance it? Or is this something you don't even worry about?

Efren: I do have to worry about it, but it's just lethal force, when you have to potentially kill a bad person to save other people. In that extreme scenario, you can't decide when you're in the moment, you have to decide it early on.

In sharing my private information, or some personal information, or some personal vulnerabilities in a book to the public or on social media, I've made a choice already in advance to face any potential backlash before it arrives.

So I contend that true living is worth dying for. That's hard, but also a good life is difficult. So I just think it's so important.

We live once in this world so you really have to commit some risk in order to truly live.

One of my biggest regrets would be being on my deathbed and not truly living my life. I'll sometimes re-engineer what I wish I would have done when I was 30, 40, 50, I'm approaching 50, and just go out and do that. I just mentally time travel and try to do those things.

This book is a classic example of it, or doing an interview with you is a classic example. I'm putting it all out there, anything that is truly beneficial to other people, and facing the backlash.

There's different motives for being a critic, so if somebody is criticizing your book, your writings, your podcast, you have to know what their motive is. If they haven't accomplished much, then their motive is probably just a Negative Nancy kind of mode of trying to tear people down who are risking entrepreneurship and living life.

If their motive is constructive, then I would heed those criticisms because they're not coming from a negative place, and there's probably some merit to it. Or as an author, when you have a developmental edit, that's very humbling. That humility is where wisdom is, so you can learn a lot during these developmental edits.

Joanna: Yes, that's true. It's actually funny that you mentioned backlash there.

We all worry about what people are going to say or what people are going to think, but the reality is, most people in the world are not going to read our book.

Efren: That's true.

Joanna: So even if we worry about it, like my mum, when I put out a book called One Day In Budapest years ago now, my mum was really worried that some right-wing fanatics were going to come and attack me. She was like, “You can't publish this!” and obviously, it was crickets. Like there was literally no response.

Efren: Right. That's funny.

Joanna: So we always overthink the fear of what will happen when we put ourselves out there.

I do want to come to another quote from the book, which kind of relates to how many of us have fear of failure. You have this quote which says,

“Failures, counter to their common perception, are integral to achieving any success. As the title of the book announces, the opposite is true.”

I wondered about this, how you're thinking about failure. Like whether that's failure that's happened in your career so far, or for authors in particular, it is lower than expected sales.

How can we take our failures and move on to success?

Efren: I think we've been taught in working-class, middle-class cultures, in particular, we've been taught to be spokes on a wheel, and not to be the wheel, not to be the leader. So we fear getting a bad mark in school or having any kind of imperfect running in a football match.

So people start to fear risking anything at all. So you're trained, or we're trained, to be spokes on a wheel. The reality is that failure is a prerequisite to success. You cannot succeed without failure.

The bigger overarching idea is humility is the only path to wisdom. So when you fail, you're humbled. Just like when we're little kids and we go from crawling to walk in, and we stumble and scrape our knees, those are difficult moments of getting our knees scrape, and yet they build resilience.

The same is true of becoming an author, or a speaker, or an FBI agent. Whatever that difficult goal happens to be, I guarantee one thing, you will fail and stumble all throughout your journey.

I contend that the only time you actually truly fail, in the conventional sense, is when you give up. Otherwise, it's just a journey, and you're growing from that journey. So I suggest for people to embrace failure because you're always growing. Embrace the humility because that's where the wisdom is.

Joanna: What specific failure have you faced that led to the success of you finishing this book?

Efren: I failed in everything I've done before I've succeeded. So that's my point. So even if your failure is reaching a timeline of when you want to get that vomit draft done, then you just have to reassess and set a new timeline.

Or it means that the bones you've been writing, the foundational bones of the book, need more work, and it's becoming a better book for it.

Then when you start to get into the meat of it, the stories, the anecdotes, the parables, or the research, which I also consider the spice of the book. Then it's just going to be a better product as you grow from, look, this isn't working, let me pivot and do that.

Becoming an FBI agent requires a lot of physical training or testing and that sort of thing, and sometimes people don't pass those on the first round. Getting in the fetal position and giving up is not the path to success.

We've got a pastor out here in Southern California that I often quote that says, “Fruit grows in valleys, not on mountaintops.” So when you're climbing your mountain to reach your summit, you'll eventually fall in the valley, but that's where all the fruit is, all the fruit of wisdom.

So you have a choice. You can sulk and give up, or you can embrace that wisdom and stuff your pockets and renourish yourself and resume your climb.

So I've faced failure in every aspect of life, but I've got a stubborn bone in me that I just want to persist. I'm grateful for that bone, even though it makes other people mad. You only live once, go for it.

Joanna: This is a very ambitious book, and I think it's excellent. I really enjoyed it. It surprised me. I don't know why it surprised me. It's got a lot of great stuff in.

How long did it take you to get this book into the world, from when you thought about it, to finally publishing?

Efren: So I had the bones, the ideas of the book, probably building throughout my career, but I didn't have the confidence or maybe even the experience yet to back it up. Near the end of my public career in the bureau and in joining the private sector as bodyguard and threat assessment person, I was pretty confident in my idea.

So that's essentially the bones of the book, the ideas that most truths are counterintuitive and paradoxical, ideas like emotion and logic don't mix, the only thing to fear is the unknown. Little ideas like this that I knew could benefit my reader, your audience, anybody who wants to live beyond mediocrity.

So that probably took about a year to nail down in an organized format. Then when you're writing fiction or nonfiction, you get these ideas at three in the morning, or these stories that pop in your head.

Whether they're experiences from your memories, or from conversations you have from people, or things you observe in the real world that suddenly go, wow, that would be a great illustration of these principles, the bones of my book. So I'll jot those down, and I start to build the book that way.

At the very end, the spice of the book is the little additional anecdotes, the refinement, the clarifications, the editing, and then the formatting to present this big picture with all those elements together. So overall, it probably took about three years to complete.

Joanna: How did you keep everything organized? There are a lot of different, as you say, a lot of anecdotes, there are different quotes, there are things about your life, there's bits of memoir.

What tools did you use for researching and the writing process?

So for example, I use Scrivener.

Efren: So what's funny is I've got all these softwares, and what I ended up using was simply Pages on my iPad. I'm just very, I guess, linear that way. I'll have those bones, which essentially become an outline, but I started out with the mind map.

That was the idea portion of the book, what I wanted the book to be about. What are like five essential points I need the reader to understand? Then I easily converted that mind map into an outline.

As these anecdotes, or stories, or things that need a little bit more due diligence materialized, I would research that, plop it in whatever area of the outline that belongs, or the ongoing manuscript. Then I'll skip to the next spot that I'm currently motivated to research or explore.

So writing the book was not from page one to the last page, which I think is page 550, it was a lot of skipping around. What really guided me were those bones, the outline.

I think that's a lot more important in the nonfiction so you have a rough outline to know where you're going, so I'm not all over the place. I, on purpose, divided the first half of the book to be named Volume One: Foundations and the second half Implementations.

The first half covers a lot of those foundational issues that you just have to get out of the way, but I back those up with stories and biographies.

The second half really gets into the weeds once I've got the reader with me and understanding these concepts. Now it's more about implementation and how things affect the reader, their own communities, and then society overall.

Joanna: Coming back to that mind map, I like mind maps too. I just would tend to do that on a piece of paper, like with my hand. Is that how you did that?

Did you use software for mind mapping?

Efren: No, the mind map was a pen-to-paper, one-page kind of thing. I knew the book I wanted to write. I thought the theme of the book would be empathy because that's such a vital part of understanding behavior. I just contend that empathy is the active synonym for psychology.

It takes some work to understand other people. It's not just something you read in a textbook. Then as I wrote the book, I almost started discovering the patterns of these counterintuitive truths.

That kind of took over the role of pointing out these truths to encourage the reader that these truths are on their side. That the good guys actually have a lot of benefits over the bad guys, even though on the surface, it appears that the bad guys are always winning these little battles.

Joanna: Yes. I'm sorry to ask you all the technical questions, but I know how hard it is to write nonfiction. For people listening who are writing nonfiction, these are really important questions.

So as I said, you have a lot of quotes, you have citations. The book is really rich for all of those, but I know how hard it is to wrangle it. If you were just doing it in Pages, like it sounds crazy. So how did you make sure to not plagiarize and make sure all of your quotes had proper quote marks? Did you get fact checking?

How did you manage the citations and quotes?

Efren: Yes, that's a great question. As I was illustrating the book with parable stories, I'd focus on a certain section that needed further illustration or research. I would dive deep to look for things that are, first of all, interesting.

I had two principles for writing the book, in general. One was reader first, and two, not boring. So part of that mindset of whether I'm writing a fiction or nonfiction, it's everything has to benefit the reader, and number two, it can't be boring.

So as I'm researching the points I'm trying to convey, I want them to be corroborated, that's the education part, but also to be interesting. So these emotional stories about reality, or parables, or whatever it may be, that's what I honed in on to really illustrate my points and entertain the reader.

So when I finally got to that, I implemented stories, quotes, anything that could serve that purpose.

I could only do so much to make sure those are truthful, so then I hired a company of fact checkers.

I can't believe they love doing this because it's such a tedious work, but they fact checked my quotes, my stories, that sort of thing. Then they created roughly a 30-page bibliography for the back of the book.

I did not do most of that work. I did what I could in the beginning, and then I passed on everything I could for them to corroborate it.

Joanna: That's great. Would you recommend that company? Give their name?Because I know people are like, oh, what's that?

Efren: Absolutely, I would. Book Launchers is an independent publishing company that allows you to keep 100% of your IP, your intellectual property. In their company, Julie Broad is the owner, and I've become friends with her.

She has people who are professional developmental editors, copy editors, formatters, everything you could think of under the sun that could really get the book to a professional level that a traditional publisher would provide.

Joanna: Yes, so that is partnership publishing. That's what we call partnership publishing. It's great that you've been happy with that because some people have difficult experiences, but it sounds like you had a very good one.

Efren: I did. Frankly, most of the companies I researched, I wasn't very impressed with them. I got a very salesy vibe from them, and that's a turn off for me and probably most people. My favorite trait from Book Launchers was, frankly, their authenticity, particularly from the founder, Julie Broad.

Joanna: Oh, that's great. Coming back to the book because you do cover some difficult situations in it. Again, a quote from the book, you say,

“Trauma does not note its presence lightly. It engraves itself into the stone of our minds.”

Of course, I read that and I was like, okay, I wonder how much trauma is engraved in your mind because of the things you've been through.

How can we use our writing to help deal with trauma, but also make sure we're not using it as therapy?

Efren: Yes, that's great. I think writing is very therapeutic because it allows you to pause with your issues, and think about them, and digest them.

So in nonfiction book writing, you could truly learn, but as you're exploring your characters in a fiction book, you could really start to dive in and empathize with your different characters.

So, for nonfiction, writing journals for yourself or memoirs as an actual book, it still has to be reader first, but it really will help the individuals process their own life experiences.

On the fiction side, hashing out your protagonists, and the villains, or the support characters, I just think that helps the individual reflect on their own issues and empathize with their characters. Even if they're bad, knowing what truly motivates this bad person.

For example, if you've got somebody with extreme bullying in their background, and maybe they get in their villainous heart for vengeance. That's kind of a classic trope that would work, but it would help the individual actually digest their own thoughts. You're forcing yourself to think and reflect, as opposed to just emote.

Joanna: I can't remember—

Do you have a trigger warning in the book?

Efren: What do you mean by a trigger warning?

Joanna: Oh, I love that you even asked that question. Okay, so I guess in the last few years, we've seen authors told to include this at the beginning of a book. It might be a novel, it might be a nonfiction book. This might include things that will upset you or offend you or will.

If you're claustrophobic, it might make you feel claustrophobic. If you have been through trauma, it might trigger that. Now, I'm not saying your book does that, it didn't trigger me. It's something that's become trendy in case you upset people. So what do you think about that?

Efren: I think that's fine, but those people are not my reader who need a trigger warning. So I dedicated my book—like, I love my family, and my wife, and all of that, but I don't do the traditional dedication to my wife, or my parents, or to a best friend. I dedicated my book to those who want to live beyond mediocrity.

Anybody who really wants to live a great, fantastic life has to face a lot of uncomfortable truths about reality.

The benefit to that is just like exercise, the more you do it, the better you get at it. So when you stop relying on denial for comfort or seeking comfort in everything, you start embracing the difficulty of accomplishing things, and you get good at it. You literally get in shape for it.

Just like tearing muscle for increased strength, you're getting better with resilience of facing a lot of uncomfortable truths. As somebody from a criminology background, a lot of those uncomfortable truths are that bad guys exist, criminals exists, bad people exist.

There are some not so nice people in your own family, your own bloodline, or your own “friendship circles” that are not good for you. So the proactive, deliberate acceptance of that suggests you should create boundaries for that, but not at the extent of denying it.

A trigger warning for me is almost the antithesis of what my book is all about.

It's almost like somebody who doesn't want to face reality, or I guess maybe they just want to know if they're not my reader.

As I put literally twice in my book, if you are not appreciating some of the truths I'm laying out my book, you would have thrown it across the room by now. I'm talking to the reader, in case they are not my reader.

So that also encourages the person who progresses in my book to know they are my reader, and that they're willing to face some of these uncomfortable truths that I promise at the end will give you a lot of benefits.

Joanna: I agree, I don't like trigger warnings. I think you should be able to communicate what's in the book by the cover, by the description, and people should know whether or not this is something they want to read. For example, if you don't like horror, don't pick up a horror book. If you don't want to know what humans are like, don't pick up a book like yours.

Efren: Right, exactly. Pretty quickly, I think not just from the covers, but from the early-on parts of the book, that first chapter, you know if something's for you or not. There's nothing wrong with closing a book and putting it down or turning off the television or the radio. It's just a choice.

I'm a big proponent of freedom and free will. So people could not like something and just turn it off, or they should be allowed to have the opportunity to engage in something.

Joanna: On that freedom then, and that you worked with a partnership publisher—

Why did you choose to go the independent author route?

With your background and experience, I imagine you could have pitched a traditional publishing deal.

Efren: Frankly, I just think that in the modern time, it's a lot easier to independently publish professionally than it used to be.

Also, the whole spirit of my purpose in protecting people from tyrants and encouraging people who have more difficulty protecting themselves from others, it's almost like the big traditional publishing industry takes advantage of a lot of potentially great authors.

If they do give them a deal, they keep a lot of the IP or a lot of the profits, and I just resent that. So in this day and age, I would encourage people to publish independently.

I'm not criticizing the traditional publishers because they have to make money, but in this day and age we have the internet, we have so many great podcasts like yours, and YouTube trainings. People can really grow independently.

I'm a big fan of independence for an individual and for society because a strong independent person could help other people on their own.

They don't have to be forced to do it. So I'm just very much of a freedom kind of person and independence kind of person. So in my mind, I had no choice but to publish independently.

Joanna: Yes, it's interesting. Then coming back to facing uncomfortable truths, which I think you talked about in a different context, but as indie authors we do have to face those things. You've now been doing this a while—

What are some of the uncomfortable truths that indie authors really need to face in the industry?

What are things that we might need to tackle?

Efren: I think one of the most fundamental ones, especially for a newer author, is to realize your book is not for everybody. In fact, it's not for most people. You shouldn't be disappointed about that, that should not be your goal.

You want to reach your particular audience. Somebody is interested in history of battles or wars is not interested in basket weaving techniques, and vice versa.

If somebody this is not interested in human behavior, or a lot of these uncomfortable realities about the bad guys make them squirm, and they'd rather just enjoy cookbooks or whatever, there's nothing wrong with that either. They should not read my book because they will be triggered.

So I just think that's one of the most important things is facing the reality that your book is not for everybody. The other thing is that you're going to face a difficulty for anything worthwhile, and just stay the course and persist because you'll grow a lot as you write the book.

The idea you have for your book when you start it definitely evolves into what your book is meant to be.

I just think a good guideline for that, or guidelines, is what I wrote on a little sticky and stuck to my iPad, and it's still there.

It's just to remember, number one, reader first, and number two, don't let it be boring. The way to implement the not be boring part is educational value in an entertaining or emotional way. Emotion is what engages people, whether it's fiction or nonfiction.

Joanna: Yes, absolutely. It is hard to remember that. Of course, what's boring for one person is interesting for another, and vice versa. For example, some people absolutely love romances, sweet romances. My mum has written some of those as Penny Appleton, and they're not my cup of tea as such.

So I guess that is another point, that what might not be boring for some people, might well be for other people. That comes to your point that your books are not for everyone.

Efren: Right, and if you're writing a technical book, I guess it's not designed for that. You just have to know what your book is for, what the purpose of your book is.

If you're writing a book about computer software, it's going to be very difficult to engage the emotions, but that reader is not interested in the emotions. They want to know the technical things. If you're writing a romance novel, you better engage that heart, or you will not have any readers.

Joanna: Yes, absolutely. In fact, those authors who engage the emotions the most do the best in terms of book sales. We've definitely seen that. I wondered what your plans are next.

Have you got the taste for writing books? Have you already started another one?

Efren: I have, and I've expressed it a little bit. I'm excited about the project I'm working on now, and I think your British audience would truly appreciate it.

Remember George Orwell's 1984, back in 1949? So if you remember the details of the book, it is totally depressing. It's a great book, but it's totally depressing. It ends where the protagonist, Winston, and his love or affair interest, Julia, get “reindoctrinated.” They pretty much get tortured to become compliant. The book ends where they're compliant followers of big brother, and it's very sad.

So what I've done as an optimistic American, is I've written a big draft of a sequel to that titled 2084 because Julia got pregnant from their love affair, and their great grandchild is my protagonist in 2084, 100 years later.

This protagonist, just like a fish doesn't know it's wet, this protagonist is in a world where big brother is dominating, there is no resistance, there's zero memory of how it used to be, but his humanity starts to leak out. To vent out these criminal thoughts, these crime thoughts, he starts taking these walks. The walks don't suffice, so he has to find another outlet, and so on and so forth.

So you can imagine the character arc where he discovers humanity and has a lot of difficulty and resistance to discovering that humanity, but the character arc is very clear. There's plenty of conflicting characters and supportive characters along the path that will surprise the reader. I'm really excited about all three acts of my 2084, and it'll complement Orwell's 1984.

Joanna: That sounds good. Did you know about—and this is not at all like the story you've mentioned—but a book called Julia came out last year by an author called Sandra Newman, and it tells Julia's story in 1984. If you haven't read that, it might be interesting. It's set back in 1984 time, so it doesn't overlap with yours.

Efren: I did not know about that.

Joanna: It's about Julia. It came up when you said that. I was like, oh, you should put that on your reading list.

Efren: I'm definitely going to read that. Thank you for telling me. I can't believe I didn't know that. I'm super excited about it now.

Joanna: That's fantastic. Now, we're almost out of time, but I do have to ask you the FBI question because there are so many authors writing FBI thrillers. It's a very popular genre. There are so many TV shows and films.

Is there anything that really annoys you that people get wrong about the FBI regularly?

Efren: Yes, it's funny you mentioned that because probably less so in books and more and movies, the thing that gets to me is some of the tactics. Watching actors running around with their fingers on the triggers makes me absolutely crazy because that's so incredibly dangerous, but they do it all the time.

So we're trying to keep our finger on the side of the weapon, whether it's a long gun or a pistol, because just life happens. You trip over a log, or somebody sneaks up behind you, the human reaction is to jerk or defend, and so your finger goes right alongside that.

So if people are running around with their finger on the trigger, they'll be shooting people all the time. So that makes me crazy.

On the similar lines, when actors are carrying the long guns, they have what we call a chicken wing, that elbow is sticking out in the air. Now you're never going to unsee this when you watch movies, but we always want to put that elbow down and stay center balanced, as opposed to sticking that elbow up.

I don't know why people do that, but it's a tendency with long guns to stick your elbow in the air like a chicken wing. So it's not so serious, but those things drive me nuts.

More on the serious side, movies and books both always make it seem like the FBI and local police are enemies and in competition, when frankly, the opposite is true. The most professional detectives and police officers have worked alongside the most professional FBI agents like partners.

So the FBI can't get much done without their local partners. So we actually partner up very well. There's a lot of resources and overarching reach that the FBI has that the local police don't have, so it develops a great partnership.

So I'm a huge proponent of task forces. It's different agencies, local or federal, working together for one common mission. That kind of complements my idea on life in general, not just in combating crime or terrorism.

Just people working together, complementing their own resources, their own ideas, and being mission-oriented like a North Star, as opposed to ego-oriented where not a lot gets done, and there's a lot of bickering and squabbling.

Joanna: Do you have any recommended resources that authors can go to?

Efren: I'm not too familiar with a lot of quality FBI books because, frankly, I don't read a lot of FBI books because I've done it. It doesn't interest me so much.

The Michael Connelly books really do a good job of showing the police officers' life. He does a lot of research with how cops in LA are. I think there's a lot of accuracy there.

Then once he has those founding cultural principles down, then he branches off into creative storytelling that maybe aren't so true, but they're entertaining, which is the whole point of fiction. So Michael Connelly's books are great for police work in general.

Frankly, not to hoot my own horn, but my book would be excellent not just for understanding some FBI thought processes, but understanding criminals in general.

I think anybody writing fiction, you're always going to have an antagonist and protagonist to some degree, whether it's grand or focused on an individual. Truly understanding what motivates good and bad people to do what they do, and how they interact with each other, and the psychological reasoning behind it, my book is a blueprint for understanding all those things.

Where then your audience will have epiphanies for their own characters and for their own lives, and probably the antagonists in their own life, understanding why they're doing what they're doing. That knowledge will empower your reader to realize, look, I'm just fine. This person's a chihuahua barking at the doorbell.

Joanna: Fantastic.

So where can people find you and your book online?

Efren: So I've got all my links in one spot. My website EfrenDelgado.com, E-F-R-E-N-delgado.com.

Joanna: Brilliant. Thanks so much for your time, Efren. That was great.

Efren: Thank you so much. It was fun.

The post Writing Hard Truths And Tips For Writing Non-Fiction With Efren Delgado first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
How do we write authentic humanity into our books, whether that's our own experience or a fictional character's? How can we embrace the challenges of life and the author journey and make the most of the opportunities along the way? How do we write authentic humanity into our books, whether that's our own experience or a fictional character's? How can we embrace the challenges of life and the author journey and make the most of the opportunities along the way? Efren Delgado gives his tips in this interview.



In the intro, How to plan and release a second edition of your book [SelfPublishingAdvice]; plus, Kickstarter update; Stone carving a green man; De-Extinction of the Nephilim [JFPennBooks; other stores];






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with writing software, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 15% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Efren Delgado is a former FBI special agent with 25 years of national security, law enforcement, and private protection experience. He's also a consultant, professional speaker, and the author of The Opposite is True: Discover Your Unexpected Enemies, Allies, and Purpose Through the Eyes of Counterintuitive Psychology.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Balancing being authentic while maintaining your boundaries



* How to take our failures and move on to success



* Creating a mind map to help during the brainstorming process



* Fact checking and managing citations when writing nonfiction



* Writing to deal with trauma while avoiding using it as therapy



* Uncomfortable truths indie authors need to face about the industry



* Common misconceptions authors get wrong when writing FBI thrillers




You can find Efren at EfrenDelgado.com.



Transcript of Interview with Efren Delgado



Joanna: Efren Delgado is a former FBI special agent with 25 years of national security, law enforcement, and private protection experience.



He's also a consultant, professional speaker,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:00:01
Collaborative Writing With AI With Rachelle Ayala https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/21/collaborative-writing-with-ai-with-rachelle-ayala/ Fri, 21 Jun 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36319 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/21/collaborative-writing-with-ai-with-rachelle-ayala/#respond https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/21/collaborative-writing-with-ai-with-rachelle-ayala/feed/ 0 <p>How can we use AI tools to enhance and improve our creative process? How can we double down on being human by writing what we are passionate about, while still using generative AI to help fulfil our creative vision? Rachelle Ayala gives her thoughts in this episode. Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/21/collaborative-writing-with-ai-with-rachelle-ayala/">Collaborative Writing With AI With Rachelle Ayala</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we use AI tools to enhance and improve our creative process? How can we double down on being human by writing what we are passionate about, while still using generative AI to help fulfil our creative vision? Rachelle Ayala gives her thoughts in this episode.

supportonpatreon

Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn

Rachelle Ayala is the multi-award-winning USA Today bestselling author of playful and passionate romances with a twist. She also has a series of books for authors, including Write with AI, An AI Author's Journal, and AI Fiction Mastery.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Understanding generative AI tools as a non-technical person
  • How the creative process can work with AI tools and why it's always changing
  • Using AI tools as a collaborative discovery process, and why it's all about your creative vision and author voice. For more on this, check out my AI-Assisted Artisan Author episode
  • Aspects of copyright
  • Staying focused on writing as new AI technology emerges, and why you need to double down on being human

You can find Rachelle at RachelleAyala.net.

Transcript of Interview with Rachelle Ayala

Joanna: Rachelle Ayala is the multi-award-winning USA Today bestselling author of playful and passionate romances with a twist. She also has a series of books for authors, including Write with AI, An AI Author's Journal, and AI Fiction Mastery. So welcome to the show, Rachelle.

Rachelle: Thank you, Joanna. Thank you for having me.

Joanna: I'm super excited to talk to you. As I was telling you, I have the ebook and the print edition of AI Fiction Mastery because I think you put things so well in your writing. Before we get into it—

Tell us a bit more about you and your background in technology and writing.

Rachelle: Okay, sure. I was a math major, and I actually have a PhD in applied math. So you would think that's kind of the farthest thing from writing.

I got into parallel computing back in the 80s. Then in the early 90s, neural networks, where we were basically trying to recognize handwritten characters between zero to nine. So that was quite interesting and fascinating.

So I basically worked in software development and network management until 2011. Then I got into writing. So romance writing was my gig, and I liked dealing with feelings and happy endings.

Joanna: Well, I love that, going from maths and neural networks into romance. You do explain a lot of the stuff behind AI in your books, which I think is really good. You're used to writing for normal people, so I don't find your writing technical at all.

Do you think people who are not very technical are struggling with this AI world at the moment?

Rachelle: I don't even think you need to be technical to understand AI because—well, there's different types of AI, but we're talking about large language models for writing.

So there's other AI systems like expert systems, machine learning, and people have been using that. They don't even know it, but they've been using it under the hood.

The AI we're talking about, large language models, ChatGPT was one of the first ones that most people became aware of. So GPT is a Generative Pretrained Transformer.

You could think of it as a word slot machine, where you could think of all these slots. So when you write a prompt, then the AI will look at the words that are in there, and then try to predict the best word that comes after.

Let's say, we say Monday, Wednesday, and most people will say Friday because that's the next word that you think of. Or if you say Monday, Tuesday, most people will say Wednesday.

So what the AI does is it was trained on reading, I think somebody said between half a trillion or trillion pieces of text. When an AI is trained, it's not reading a book like we do, where we read it from beginning to end.

So think of if you cut a piece of newspaper into a strip or a square, and then it's got all these words that are in there, and it's looking for words, associations, and patterns. So it'll say, oh, this word goes with that word, and those words go together.

So it could take a word like, say, “bark.” If it sees dog in the other slots, it's going to most likely come out with “woof,” but if it sees trees in the other slot, then it might say, “the bark is wrinkly or hard,” and it's thinking of a tree bark.

So that's how it is able to create words, and that's why you think it's intelligent, because it understands the context. It does so with these huge, huge context windows. So I don't want to get too technical, but a context window is how many words can it keep in its memory.

So it can look at all these associations and how those words go together, so it can best predict the next word that comes out of this word slot machine, so to say. It doesn't remember anything.

Joanna: It's interesting. You mentioned words there, like associations and patterns. I feel like the big misunderstanding with large language models is that some authors think that it's more like a database, where all these “stolen” books are sitting in a big database.

Then if you query it, it will pull out exact chunks from other people's books and use them. So you're always going to plagiarize or you're always going to be “stealing.” Like you and I hear these words a lot from authors who are really just starting out.

Can you explain why it's not a database?

Rachelle: Well, databases are storage. So if you query at a database, it pulls out exactly what's in there. I mean, this is like your social security number. It's not going to get it wrong, it's going to pull it right out. Your birthdate, if it's entered in correctly, it will pull it out.

Everybody knows that AI doesn't get things correct, or it doesn't get things exact. If you prompt it twice with the same prompt, like, say, “Write me a story about a road runner who is sick,” or something, it's going to write you something different.

Even that, if you think about how they trained AI, they trained it by inputting all these words that are associated together. Then they adjusted the weights of how these words are more likely to be with those words.

They're not retaining the words, the words are thrown away. The only thing it keeps is the weight.

So sort of like when you read a book, unless you have a photographic memory, you cannot recall that book, but you can recall the concepts because you have made associations between what you read and it communicated to you these ideas.

In fact, people say our memories are not like videos, our memories are actually assembled whenever we're recalling something. So we are making things up on the fly, based on all the associations that we've had in our lives. Similarly, that's how AI LLM really is making up things.

So when people say it lies to you, it's like, no. It's actually just making things up. You gave it a prompt that said, like, “Say happy birthday to me,” and it just keeps going with that.

There's also something called a temperature knob where you could basically increase the randomness, because you know, it's boring if that always gives you the same answer.

So they built in this randomness thing where it's going to look for either the most probable, or the next most probable, or it has a whole list of probable words that come next. If you turn on that temperature, you dial it all the way up, you're going to get gibberish.

The other thing with LLMs, they've literally read the kitchen sink. It's not just literature, they read code. So a lot of times, if I turn up the temperature and I'm prompting it, all of a sudden it's just all this gibberish code that comes out of it. So that just shows you that it has no memory.

Joanna: I think that's definitely one of the reasons why the legal cases are so complicated and why people actually need to have some technical idea. It's not just a case of like copying and pasting.

Let's talk more about your creative process. So you're a discovery writer, which I love, although you have given tips for outlining in your books. Can you tell us—

How does your creative process work with AI? Are you just writing a prompt and then hitting publish?

Rachelle: Oh, definitely not.

I think the first time I got on ChatGPT, and I'm sure every one of you guys have done it, you said, “Write me a novel.” Then ChatGPT wrote a 200-word story about some rabbit jumping across a meadow, and it might have seen a turtle, and it's like a kid story. So it's interesting, and it's fun.

I think today, they probably won't do any of that because they put some processing in where it will probably say, “Please give me enough detail.” At the very beginning, it would happily go off and write this little fanciful story.

So getting back to, yes, I'm a discovery writer, but I think I have also learned about story structure. So very early in writing, I realized that if I just sat there and meandered around with my character, we could do all these interesting things, but it would not be telling a story.

A story has to have some kind of meaning behind it. So it's characters, they're going through actions, they're experiencing things, but there needs to be an emotional meaning behind it or something where readers want to find out what happens next.

So I did study story structure. I think I read Larry Brooks's book on story engineering, so I know about the inciting incident, and the progressive complications, and there's like this midpoint review. So you kind of have to have those things in the back of your mind.

AI actually does not know all this. The other thing most of you've probably tried is if you type in what you want the AI to do for the story, it takes the most direct point.

So like for romance, this really doesn't work because the romance thrives off conflict. It means there's attraction, and then there's this push and pull of, okay, I'm really attracted to this guy, but he's got some things that just doesn't work.

So it's the push and pull between the attraction and the conflict and two people are working things out. Both of them are flawed, but we believe in redemption, and we believe that everybody deserves to be loved. So the reader is really looking for how this is going to work out.

Well, the AI would just say, okay, so we talked about it, and then happily together we can face these things. It's really so innocent. It's like, “Oh, well, why don't we just talk it out? Then they can walk hand in hand and face the future with determination.”

Joanna: You know that's a ChatGPT story!

Rachelle: Of course.

Joanna: What are some of the ways you do use [ChatGPT] in your creative process?

Rachelle: Well, actually, every book I've written with the assistance of AI, I have done something different. That's because the tools change so fast. So I think at the beginning with ChatGPT, I was just asking it questions about, “Oh, let's make up some mythological figures that can do this or that, or some magic.”

I was sort of using it like a search engine, which it's not because it's making stuff up. I was just heightening descriptions and things like that.

So I think I talked about that in my first book, Love by the Prompt, which was basically just brainstorming and asking it, “Give me premises for a romance,” or, “Give me an enemies to lovers story.” So it was doing that.

At that point, it couldn't write more than 300 words or so. So we weren't really using it to write prose, we were using it maybe to enhance your descriptions or bring in things that you didn't think about.

The speed of AI went so fast, so by the time we were into summer when I wrote the AI Author's Journal, we were actually writing scenes. The way we were writing the scenes is we would list out the scene beats.

So these are just very basic actions of, “they walked down the street,” “there was a gunfight going on,” “there was a sheriff that came in.” So basic beats. We were doing that, and then laying that out and feeding it to the AI so that the AI would kind of fill it in.

So you're really leading it like a horse, like a horse to waters. Like, “Come on this way. Okay, now you're going to do that.” It was really funny to see what it would do in between.

I happen to like hallucinations. I think a lot of authors don't like it.

I really get a crack when it goes, what they call, off the rails. I'm like, oh, really? Okay, this is funny.

So that's how I was using it. It wasn't like this prescriptive thing where I already knew like beginning to end, and I'm going to lay it all out, and then push a button, and this is going to go through.

It doesn't listen to you anyway, so you're not going to be able to. Even if you're an outliner, and you have an 80-page outline and you've got everything listed.

I should say, you can make it listen to you by dialing the temperature down and using one of the more boring models. I don't think you're going to like what comes out because it will be very concise and succinct. They would just literally stick to your beats like glue.

It's not expanding from it, so then why bother have AI write it. At the same time, if you turn the temperature up, it might deviate, and it might deviate in really fun ways. Or it might be like, no, this is not what I want you to do, and it's already solved the problem by chapter two.

Joanna: Yes, and I think the temperature dial, as you mentioned, that's really only available if you go through more like the Playground options.

If people are just using ChatGPT, for example, there is no particular temperature dial in that.

Rachelle: There isn't. It's really interesting now because they give you access to the latest 4.0, as well as 4 and 3.5. If you really want some of the more quirky stuff, you need to go back to 3.5.

It's, in a sense, much more innocent. It will just happily go off and do something. Whereas 4.0, I've noticed they've made it more, what they call, safe.

It tends to feel more like business writing a lot more because what 4.0 will tend to do is whatever you give it, it's going to make a bold heading, and then it will give you some bullets, and then it's another bold heading. It's like okay, so you just summarized my scene brief, and you didn't put anything creative in between.

That's what brings me to Claude. I really love Claude. Claude is the other chat. So if you're beginning, I think most people say, well, we've got to get ChatGPT.

With ChatGPT, I think because it's more structured for business, it's much better at writing the scene briefs and the outlines.

It will stick to the topic, so if you wanted to outline so for nonfiction, especially—and I think Gemini works good for that, too—is that it will stick to the outline. Then you can work with it and say, “Okay, I'm going to write a nonfiction book about decluttering,” and it will help you stick to it.

Whereas Claude, I think is a little bit more freeform. With old Claude 2, it might balk and say just, “I do not feel comfortable being judgey about somebody's hoarding problems. I think with the new Claude 3, they've loosened that a bit, and so it will be more creative, but it may be less structured.

So I think ChatGPT, you can use it for structuring and writing your outlines, and even your scene briefs or chapter briefs. What we talk about when we talk about scene briefs is you need to give the AI a lot more information.

Just telling it, “Write me a scene of a cute meet between a cowboy and a waitress,” it gives it too much leeway. So a scene brief basically is a piece of information, and we call this mega prompting, but we're giving it information of the characters in the scene, the settings of the scene, and then the beats.

What's going to happen first, second, third? What's the inciting incident? What are the progressive complications? I'm using the story grids way of developing scene, so you have the progressive complications.

Then you have some kind of crisis because there has to be something to motivate your protagonist or to challenge your protagonist, and then some kind of decision where that's made to move this thing forward.

So if you only have a scene that only has beats and there's no sort of story element in it, then it's not going to work. So that's why you have to do a lot of leading.

Joanna: It's interesting. You mentioned leading there, and also the different personalities of the models, and also, the fun. I mean—

I feel like it's a fun back-and-forth process.

It's like I might ask Chat for a list of things that might go wrong in this particular situation or places where I could set a scene.

I think I use ChatGPT for a lot of lists of options, and also marketing. I think it's very good on marketing copy. Then, as you say, with Claude, I use what I think you call completion prompting. I might upload what I've written so far, and then say, “Okay, what are 10 ways this scene could continue?” and it will help in in that way.

So I think it's being more fluid almost, isn't it? Going backwards and forwards, and you have ideas, it has ideas, that kind of thing.

Rachelle: I've discovered I like Claude Sonnet the best because Sonnet will actually write. Like if you go through a Workbench or Playground type of thing, and I go through Future Fiction Academy's Rexy, where I get to specify every parameter, including the length of the output.

So with Sonnet, we always say, “Write a 3000-word scene.” Some people used to say 10,000, hoping ChatGPT would do it. Well, it doesn't work that way.

They have a parameter called max-length that they've already programmed into chat. You don't know what it is, but it's probably not going to be that long because you're sharing the chat with so many other people. You're doing a flat fee, and they're paying by the token.

When you go into Playgrounds, or through Rexy, you can special specify a max length. Like I said in the book, all of them, even the million context windows, they may have 100,000-200,000 tokens that you can feed in, the maximum output is 4096 tokens, which is roughly around 3000 words.

So some of them are just like the C students. You tell them do 3000 words, they do 500-700. With Sonnet, I found, and Haiku, will gladly go up to your limit.

If you didn't give it enough information to prompt, it'll just kind of get repetitive and have your character doing the same thing over and over in different ways, but that's your fault.

Joanna: I think, again, this is really important. You're still not just copying and pasting that scene, right? You're not taking that scene out of Haiku or Sonnet and then pasting that and then publishing it.

So just explain—

How are you leading the AI? How are you editing?

I still think people are afraid that we're just going to lose our creativity and the AI will do all the writing, whereas that's not really what's happening.

Rachelle: First, I just want to say there is no wrong way to use AI. I know everybody's process is different.

So there are authors who spend a lot of time with their outline, and whether they're using ChatGPT or they're just working on it by themselves, everything is going through this person's filter, this person's creativity.

So even if someone works a long outline, and then tells the AI, “Write these scene beats, write what I just gave you,” that author has put in all those scene beats. That author has said, “This is the emotion I want in the scene.” That author has said, “This is what's going to happen.”

So even the most prescriptive author that architects it from the beginning to the end, that person has put themselves into that story.

It's not like AI is just going to write you a story.

The other thing I think people forget is that it's humans that tell stories because we're the ones with the emotions. When we see a list of things happening, a lot of it depends on the context.

So if, for example, you see a man punch out another man, if it's on the theater on the stage, you laugh, but if it's on the street right in front of you, you're like horrified. So these contexts are all happening emotionally in the human being.

AI will just describe, “Okay, this man punched the other one, and he hit his jaw, and the blood went flying.” It will describe the stuff, but the storyteller is putting the emotional context into that scene, and what the reader is going to feel is coming from the human.

Whether the AI writes the words or not, or even draws the cartoon or not, it's the medium of how you're communicating that story that's eliciting the emotion. So I think I don't worry whether you're a plotter or a pantser, it's more just believing that the story is coming from you.

Whether you dictated it, transcribed it, I just look at AI as it increases the accessibility of storytelling for people.

Maybe English is your second language or you're a visual person.

Joanna: Yes, it's interesting. I feel like because we describe ourselves as writers, and for a long time we've used this number of words written. You know, people will say, “Oh, I wrote 2000 words a day,” or, “I wrote 10,000 words today.” We've really viewed value of being a writer on how many words we write.

Therefore, I think people are struggling because if you can generate 3000 words with one prompt from an AI—and that's where we are now, I mean, goodness knows where it will be in a year or two. I think I did, and maybe other people, are struggling with this question of—

What is our value if it's not generating words? So how do you see that question?

Rachelle: I think your value is making sure those words are words that people want to read. That's the same with whether you're doing your messy draft or not too. I mean, before AI, I wrote 90 books. I can write 50,000 words in two weeks. I've done all the NaNoWriMos and all that.

So the thing is, you as the creative person, you can generate the words, but it may not be words anyone wants to read, maybe you don't even want to read it. So you're also the curator of those words.

Basically, it still comes down to you're the storyteller. You have to have a story worth telling.

I mean, you don't want to just report what you see without putting meaning into it. The meaning into it is what gives you the story, because ultimately, the story is a human to human communication.

Whether I'm talking to you face to face and telling you what happened to me last Friday, or I'm communicating through a novel, it really is still, like I would say, heart to heart. It will come from my heart, but when you read it, it's going through your heart.

Like I said, the AI can throw out a lot of words, and some of the time I have to admit, I don't even read what it gives me. Sometimes I ask it for ideas, and then I do exactly what it doesn't say to do. Or it can spark something totally opposite or just unrelated.

You're a discovery writer, right? So you know that ideas don't come until you start moving. It's like getting on a bicycle. So before I even sit down to write a scene, I could say, “Oh, this is what's going to happen. I think I know what's going to happen,” but when I start writing it, it's like something else just pops into my mind and it deviates.

Joanna: I totally agree. So this is the point.

We are the ones with the creative drive. We have the ideas, we have the prompts, we have the story; we have the emotion. The AI tools, they're just tools.

Someone has asked me that—

They worry that they might not be able to find their voice if they start writing with AI. Or that they might somehow lose creativity in some way. What do you think about that?

Rachelle: I actually think it's valid. I've been writing, oh, I don't know, 12/13 years, and you develop the voice by just writing, free writing. So I think it is valid because if I read too much AI, I find myself kind of writing like them, like using some of the same phrases.

So we're sponges, we absorb what we read. I mean, that's how we developed our voice. We read lots of books, right? You probably have your favorite authors, or if you're like me, I read across multiple genres. I love everything I read.

We're like humans, sponges. The LLM is just like us. I mean, if you noticed ChatGPT, it read a lot of fanfiction. So it has a lot of the same names that it gives and the same things that are always happening, and it's only because it's read all these fanfiction sites. So it tends to write like fanfiction.

So I worry about that too. I look at it, and I say, “Oh, I don't want to sound like ChatGPT,” and if I keep reading what it writes, sometimes I catch myself.

Joanna: That's interesting. It's funny, I haven't felt that at all. I feel like this comes down to being confident in your voice.

I think when we've been writing as long as we have, we kind of know when it sounds like us.

So if I read something, I'll be like, that doesn't sound like me, so maybe I didn't write that, or I don't know where that's come from. So certainly in my editing process, I edit pretty hard in order to bring my voice.

I really think that maybe people will just learn to write in a different way. In that we wrote with the Internet, so we've had the internet, and we have learned and written in that particular way.

People growing up now, this is now free, kids at school are going to use these tools. So they will probably just learn in a different way.

I still think it comes down to what you, as a creator, have as your creative drive.

I think that is really particular to you.

Rachelle: Right, and actually, I think we don't have to worry as much going forward. As we've seen, Claude Haiku, Sonnet, and Opus, they write differently. I think a lot of what we think is AI is from ChatGPT 3.5, because that was the first one that came out.

You're right, the kids that are growing up today, they're going to be reading as much AI-generated content, if not more, than the classics. Though you could always go back and read the classics, too.

Joanna: So there's definitely the responsibility of the creator. I guess we're saying, and that I'd say, I'm an AI-assisted artisan author. So it's still my work, it's what I want to do.

I am interested in what you think about copyright in the USA. In the UK, our copyright law is that anything created by a machine belongs to the creator.

“In the case of a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work which is computer-generated, the author shall be taken to be the person by whom the arrangements necessary for the creation of the work are undertaken.”

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, Section 9, 3

In the US, you have quite a lot of copyright rulings that still haven't happened around that. So how do you think about that in the US?

Rachelle: Well, first of all, I'm not a lawyer. So I don't know what the legal things are. I think the US, and this is what I think, they think there has to be some kind of human touch in it. So they're trying to measure how much of the human touch.

[Read the US Copyright Office guidance here.]

An analogy is like taking a picture. I think immediately people probably thought, “Oh, well, all you did was click the button, and you took a picture,” but the copyright office ruled that, “Oh, but you had to set up the shot. You had to adjust the lighting. You had to catch it at the right moment.”

So the camera didn't take the picture by itself—well, actually, you can set the camera to take pictures, and nowadays, you might have a video camera that's just been watching something and AI can pick out the best shots.

At the time they did grant a copyright to photographs, the thinking was a human was behind it that pushed the button and it composed a shot. I actually think AI prompting is actually more work.

Everyone just thinks that you just push the button and out pops an article, and that's not the case.

I went to a seminar where one of the lawyers said, “Oh, well, it's all in the prompts. The originality is in the prompts,”

which does go back to that plagiarizing. If you copy and paste somebody's work into the prompt, you can get AI to spit that back out. That's on you because that was in the prompt, it wasn't AI's fault. So the lawyer said that, and believe me, all your prompts are stored somewhere.

I mean, they have not discarded any of the prompts. So he's saying that in the future, he thinks cases will be decided by looking at how creative the prompts were.

Joanna: That is really interesting. I totally agree, and it's one of my sort of red lines. I say to people:

Don't use other people's names or brands in your prompt, whether that's images or music or authors.

I can use my name in a prompt, but I'm not going to use your name, I'm not going to use Stephen King, I'm not going to use Dan Brown. I'm not even going to use dead authors because I want my own voice. So I think that's really important.

It is also interesting because in the early days—I say the early days early, like last year—I was still taking screenshots of prompts in case.

Rachelle: Like I've got to save these?

Joanna: Well, no. So that in case I had to prove that this was my own work. So I was keeping that, I took pictures of my edits, like I was quite paranoid last year. Now we're in mid-2024, I'm starting to relax a lot more.

Let's just think about what's happened. I mean, as we're speaking now, last week they released 4.0 Omni. We've had Google releasing Gemini 1.5, Microsoft has announced new PCs that will have AI in them. I mean, the pace is so fast now, and Apple's going to announce something soon.

How do you adjust to the pace of change?

Are you, as you said earlier, are you changing your process all the time? How do you stay focused, rather than getting sidetracked?

Rachelle: Well, it is harder to stay focused because there's always some new toy that comes out. Just yesterday, I got into the Hunch beta, which is basically a drag and drop prompt sequencing.

So you can put in context blocks, and then you can drag that context and feed it into these AI blocks and it does something to transform it. Then you can feed multiple context blocks into AI blocks, and multiple AI blocks into another one to aggregate the content, or you can split it out in different ways and use different LLMs for each output.

So yes, it's hard to stay focused. I think once I get into a story, I do focus on that story. Then I keep kind of an ear to the ground on what's going on.

So I joined the Future Fiction Academy because it's a group of people, Elizabeth Ann West, Steph Pajonas, and Leeland Artra, who they are all over the place looking at all this AI. They are also real writers because I knew them from indie publishing 10 years ago.

So they look at these tools and they're always thinking of new methods. It's not just them, it's the whole group in Future Fiction Academy. Somebody will say, “Oh, did you see this Hunch thing?”

So Hunch was brought in by somebody else who said, “I use this to sequence these prompts, and I wrote my scene briefs, and then I had five different LLMs write the scene, and then I'm going to look at them all and pick out the best ones.”

So by joining a group of active authors who are focused on their writing, because each one of these authors are still focused on their author career and not the AI.

AI is a means to an end

— not like the YouTubers where—and they have their uses too, but they are focused on the AI. So they're always looking at the new AI and how it came out. That's great to also subscribe to a few of their channels so you kind of know something's coming.

Also, you have to know, well, okay, I'm not going to distract myself with the new music stuff because I don't really use music in my work, but I know it's there type of thing.

Joanna: Well, what do you think's going happen next? I mean, how do you think things are going to change in the next year or two? I guess we're looking at maybe GPT 5, which might be another step up.

I guess some people think that that will just mean we can write books even faster. As you said, you were writing books pretty fast before, and romance authors are fast. So I don't really see it as a speed thing.

How do you think things will change, both creatively and in the business of being an author?

Rachelle: Well, it's hard to say. I mean, look at ChatGPT 3.5, now we're looking at it like training wheels. What we have today is Omni, and like you said, GPT-5 will come out. I don't really know, I just know that as long as these companies are fighting it out, we get access to the latest and greatest.

So I think I'm more worried about when the industry consolidates, and all the best writing tools, the AI that's able to not just spit out words, but the one that can analyze novels. Believe me, I'm sure these publishing companies already have it.

I have heard somebody say that Netflix actually has analyzed streaming behavior of their customers. So they know when the customers quit watching the video, they know when they rewound, and they know when they watched it all the way through without stopping.

So they've analyzed those story structures to come up with better stories. I'm pretty sure that anybody who owns a reading app knows this.

We buy a lot of books we never read, I mean, especially free books. You downloaded them, maybe opened into the first page, read the first page, and dropped it.

Those owners of those reading apps know full well which books have caught on, which books are the ones that it's 3am and you haven't stopped and you just keep going and going and going. So they have all that data.

So once they train their AI to recognize that kind of pattern—what kind of patterns of story, not just words, because right now, today's LLMs are just looking at word patterns.

We're looking at AI agents that can analyze the patterns of the story, like the rising action, the conflict and tension points, all of that. Then they can actually generate story, critique the story, and then match it to what readers' preferences are.

Then maybe we may just become providers of experiences, I suppose.

Joanna: I mean, let's fast forward. There's going to be perfect algorithmic fiction, you know. It'll be perfect, people will love it. They'll go and they'll get that, and that will be a lot of what people read. That's why I say to people —

You need to double down on being human, because you are not an algorithm, and I'm not an algorithm.

So I think that there's still a place for the human writer, which is flawed. We have flawed writing. So I think there's room for both.

Rachelle: That's the whole thing about romance, the characters are flawed, but they're still lovable.

Joanna: Yes, so let's hope we are!

Rachelle: It's going to be interesting. It's almost like the way with social media. They've done studies on dopamine hits, and so they made their things addictive so that you're always scrolling and scrolling and looking at the videos and hitting the likes. That's all these little shots of dopamine.

So they've done all that research on how human minds work to get you addicted to a platform. I wonder if the AI can also create books and stories that you just can't put down because it just kind of knows. It can individualize this for every reader. If your Kindle Library's as big as mine, it knows what I'm really interested in, and not what I say I'm interested in. It knows if I buy a book because I liked the author, but then I never read the books. It knows what you're really doing, and it can personalize that for you.

Joanna: Yes, well, we certainly live in interesting times. It's been so great to talk to you.

Tell people where they can find you and all your books online.

Rachelle: Well, I have a website, RachelleAyala.net, but you can just find me on Amazon. Just type in Rachelle Ayala and AI Author’s Journal or Romance In A Month, and then you'll find my nonfiction books. Then for the fiction books, I think type in Bad Boys For Hire, or something like that, and you'll find my fiction books.

Then I did recently start a new pen name using my real name, Clare Chu, C-L-A-R-E-C-H-U. This is much more AI. I decided to do these humorous guidebooks that are called Misguided Guides.

So my first book was Why Your Cat Is Plotting to Kill You. I made the cover with Midjourney, so I'm showing this to you on the screen.

Joanna: That's very cute. I think experimentation is fantastic, and you certainly do that. So thanks so much for your time, Rachelle. That was great.

Rachelle: Okay, sure. It was great being on. Thank you, Joanna.

The post Collaborative Writing With AI With Rachelle Ayala first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
How can we use AI tools to enhance and improve our creative process? How can we double down on being human by writing what we are passionate about, while still using generative AI to help fulfil our creative vision? How can we use AI tools to enhance and improve our creative process? How can we double down on being human by writing what we are passionate about, while still using generative AI to help fulfil our creative vision? Rachelle Ayala gives her thoughts in this episode.






Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Rachelle Ayala is the multi-award-winning USA Today bestselling author of playful and passionate romances with a twist. She also has a series of books for authors, including Write with AI, An AI Author's Journal, and AI Fiction Mastery.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Understanding generative AI tools as a non-technical person



* How the creative process can work with AI tools and why it's always changing



* Using AI tools as a collaborative discovery process, and why it's all about your creative vision and author voice. For more on this, check out my AI-Assisted Artisan Author episode



* Aspects of copyright



* Staying focused on writing as new AI technology emerges, and why you need to double down on being human




You can find Rachelle at RachelleAyala.net.



Transcript of Interview with Rachelle Ayala



Joanna: Rachelle Ayala is the multi-award-winning USA Today bestselling author of playful and passionate romances with a twist. She also has a series of books for authors, including Write with AI, An AI Author's Journal, and AI Fiction Mastery. So welcome to the show, Rachelle.



Rachelle: Thank you, Joanna. Thank you for having me.



Joanna: I'm super excited to talk to you. As I was telling you, I have the ebook and the print edition of AI Fiction Mastery because I think you put things so well in your writing. Before we get into it—



Tell us a bit more about you and your background in technology and writing.



Rachelle: Okay, sure. I was a math major, and I actually have a PhD in applied math. So you would think that's kind of the farthest thing from writing.



I got into parallel computing back in the 80s. Then in the early 90s, neural networks, where we were basically trying to recognize handwritten characters between zero to nine. So that was quite interesting and fascinating.



So I basically worked in software development and network management until 2011. Then I got into writing. So romance writing was my gig,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 44:34
Writing Through Fear With Caroline Donahue https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/17/writing-through-fear-with-caroline-donahue/ Mon, 17 Jun 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36326 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/17/writing-through-fear-with-caroline-donahue/#comments https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/17/writing-through-fear-with-caroline-donahue/feed/ 4 <p>What are some of the common fears that writers face? How can we work through them in order to create more freely? Caroline Donahue gives her tips in this interview. In the intro, How to avoid indie author scams [ALLi; Writer Beware]; Financial strategies and mindset [Self Publishing Advice]; Apple Intelligence at WWDC [The Verge; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/17/writing-through-fear-with-caroline-donahue/">Writing Through Fear With Caroline Donahue</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are some of the common fears that writers face? How can we work through them in order to create more freely? Caroline Donahue gives her tips in this interview.

In the intro, How to avoid indie author scams [ALLi; Writer Beware]; Financial strategies and mindset [Self Publishing Advice]; Apple Intelligence at WWDC [The Verge; Marketing against the Grain]; “Not a chef, but an emotion creator.” Massimo Bottura on the Possible Podcast.

Plus, Spear of Destiny is on its last day; Thoughts on photography permissions for commercial use — and permission in general; Voodoo Vintners; Winchester pictures; Limeburn Hill vineyard pictures.

This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Caroline Donahue is an author, podcaster, and book coach. Her latest book is Writing Through Fear: A Story Arcana Guide.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • The most common fears writers face
  • How the fear of not being considered a “real writer” holds you back
  • Overcoming the fear of judgement and being cancelled
  • Fearing things before you are anywhere near them in the process
  • Breaking down projects into smaller, more manageable tasks
  • Embracing the unpredictable nature of creativity
  • The challenges and reasons for rebranding a book
  • Substack as a podcasting platform and community tool

You can find Caroline at CarolineDonahue.com, her Substack at book-alchemy.com, and her podcast at SecretLibraryPodcast.com.

Transcript of Interview with Caroline Donahue

Joanna: Caroline Donahue is an author, podcaster, and book coach. Her latest book is Writing Through Fear: A Story Arcana Guide. So welcome back to the show, Caroline.

Caroline: Thank you so much for having me. This is such a treat.

Joanna: You were on the show back in 2019 when we talked about your background and writing with the tarot. So we're just going to jump straight into the topic today.

Why did you want to write about fear? What sparked the book, and why structure it around Tarot?

Caroline: Well, I think that the topic of fear evolved because there were a couple of projects I considered doing before I landed on this one.

There was a desire to take a course I created during the pandemic, called Dream to Draft, and I thought, oh, I'll make a book version of that course. I tried to do that for most of a year, actually, and realized that I couldn't really recreate the experience of taking that course.

So I was trying to distill down elements of what made the difference for people of being able to finish a book or not finish a book. I noticed that they were able to overcome fears that they had while being in the course.

The main difference between people who were finishing books and delighted with their progress, and those who were getting kind of stuck in the swamps of sadness—if you'll forgive the 1980s film reference of The NeverEnding Story—were those who just got completely mired in fear about their writing. So I thought, okay,

If I can help people to engage with their fear differently, then they'll be able to write

— and I can do that from a distance. So that was what I ultimately got excited about. As for why I paired it with the tarot, for one thing, it made it a much easier book to write because I had a built-in structure. I had wanted to return to the tarot ever since writing the previous book, which focused on the first 22 cards, the Major Arcana.

I thought, oh, this is a great way to address the Minors because those are everyday life situations that people face. So I matched one fear to each card. Also, I could imagine people pulling a card.

I've already had one person who's read the book respond that when they're about to start a difficult scene or difficult project, they'll pull a card and then read the corresponding fear entry in the book. This helps them get into the writing. So that was delightful to hear.

Joanna: That is one of the very useful things about tarot or any of these kinds of things that spark ideas by looking at images or thinking about symbolism. So I think that's actually quite a good way into these fears. It feels like if you try and tackle it head on, it's often much harder. Did the people in your course recognize their fears?

Caroline: I think in some cases, yes. In some cases, it looked like other things. When I studied psychology ages ago, you have this kind of fight or flight, or we now have freeze that we know about, and fawn.

There are different ways that people engage with things that scare them.

Sometimes they look like the cartoon Scream face, if you think of the horror movie, but not always. So I thought that I wanted them to increase their vocabulary of how they could think about fear, so that it wouldn't feel like they had gone wrong and that this was a sign that they shouldn't continue writing.

I mean, fear comes up inevitably when we write. As you know, looking at the shadow and writing dark fantasy and suspense, that's part of the process of going into the fictional world, but that doesn't have to be the end point.

Just because fear comes up, doesn't mean you have to stop writing. So I wanted them to be able to move through that and get to the other side.

Joanna: Let's identify some of the most common fears that writers face.

What are some ones that you've encountered again and again in your students, and also in yourself?

Caroline: Oh, yes, completely. I think if we had to boil it down, like if we could boil down almost every fear, underneath there is a fear of doing it wrong, that I am doing this wrong. There's a lot that we can pick apart out of that because we have this weird language and belief structure around books.

We'll read a book that we love in a bookstore, say, or we read one of the “classics”, and we perceive it like, oh, that book is perfect. It couldn't have been written any other way. It had this exact shape and form that it was supposed to take, and that nothing about it could change, or else it wouldn't exist as it does today. I don't think that that's true, but —

A lot of people have this fear that they're going to make a mistake, or they're going to do something wrong, and the whole thing is going to fall apart.

There are many flavors of this particular fear, but it's like if you go back to the Robert Frost poem, “Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less traveled by.”

Most writers fear that two roads diverged in a wood, and they're going to take the wrong one for their writing project, and then everything is going to fall apart as a result.

Joanna: That could be at different stages, right? That could be I'm writing the wrong genre, or I'm writing the wrong story, and then I made the wrong publishing choice, I've chosen the wrong marketing platform. I mean, it's not just one choice, it's over and over again.

Caroline: There's so many. It can come up again and again. It's like a whack a mole fear. It's like, oh, I ended the chapter at the wrong point, this character should have this motivation, or the character has the wrong personality trait, or I've formatted the dialogue incorrectly, my grammar is wrong.

Like all of this sense is that “real writers”—I could write a whole book on that, this concept of the “real writer”—but that “real writers” do it the “right way”. I am scared that I am not doing it the right way, therefore, I'm not a real writer, therefore, I shouldn't be allowed to write at all.

Joanna: So it's interesting you picked that one.

How has this [fear of not being a “real writer”] come up for you?

Caroline: I think this used to really paralyze me. I mean, in my 20s, I wrote and abandoned about five or six novels, thinking that I had picked the wrong project. I thought that I had picked an idea that was unsalvageable, and I don't feel that there's any idea that's unsalvageable anymore.

Part of that is because I read a book, it was a very short novel by an independent press, called Love Notes from a German Building Site. Unfortunately, I can't remember the author in this exact moment. It was essentially a character’s musings and vocabulary lists. It's an Irish author writing about working on an abandoned mall in Germany.

So it's one of those ideas where if you presented it to me and said, “Would you like to read a novel about some guy hanging out on a mall construction site, and he's just randomly thinking about his relationship and is not quite sure where that's going?” that really wouldn't get me going. However, I read this book, and I could not put it down. I loved it, and I haven't stopped thinking about it for years. It's always been my example that there is no idea that cannot be executed on. You may not want to execute on it, or you may not be interested in it, but —

If you're engaged with the material, then you can keep going, and you can find a way through.

I think that I didn't believe that was possible early on. So I gave ideas up when I got scared, or when I felt like, oh, this isn't interesting enough, or I don't know if it was going to work. I felt like this means I've done it wrong, I've gotten lost. I'm lost in the woods, and I'm never going be able to find my way back.

That was rather than seeing it as a challenge and thinking there is a way for this story to be interesting. How can I find the parts that I'm most excited about? How can I make the story about those? I didn't have the ability to trust at that point.

I think the antidote for this fear is trusting that there is a way through.

Joanna: Yes, and this is so interesting as well being an independent author. So my first novel, Stone of Fire, I originally released it in 2011 as Pentecost by Joanna Penn. I've rewritten it like three times, and now it's Stone of Fire by J.F. Penn.

The bones are still the same, but as my craft grew, I rewrote it, I learned about publishing, I learned about marketing. I mean, pictures of me with that book back then, I did do a lot of things wrong, but equally, I had to take some steps in a direction in order to fix things later.

I wonder if the traditional publishing model is why people get so scared about this. I mean, either you feel you failed because you didn't get a deal, or you do get a deal, and then your craft improves, and you look back. You speak to a lot of traditionally published authors on your podcast, The Secret Library Podcast, which we'll come back to.

Where do you see this being perhaps worse for traditionally published authors?

Because you just don't get the chance to change things.

Caroline: I think this fear starts much, much earlier in life. I think it starts with the way our education system is organized. I mean, we have an education system that was built for an industrial age, which is not entirely relevant anymore.

I mean, I think back to Sir Ken Robinson's incredible talk on YouTube about how creativity is as important as literacy, and we need to be able to get something wrong and be willing to change it.

Essentially, from a very young age, we have to take tests, and we get a mark, and then it's determined what we should be doing, what we think we're good at, what paths we're allowed to follow. I think that that sense of being sorted into being an artsy kid, or being a science kid, or not being good at school, if that's the case, can have a really strong impact.

It's like, I have one chance to take this test, and I won't have a chance to take it again. Or if I write a paper, and I misunderstood the assignment, then I just get a bad grade, there's no chance to take that back. I think we internalize that message really, really early.

Since so much of our education when this happens is about writing essays, and writing papers that we then get graded on, I think it all comes back up when we write later in a way that's going to be published. Yes, we don't get grades, but we do get reviews, however we publish. I think that this is really deeply embedded.

I hope that we are more willing to write things, learn from them, and be willing to change, grow, and write more things.

Joanna: I think you're right. Actually, this brings me to a fear—and I talked about it in Writing the Shadow—which is this fear of judgment. I was told as a kid, when I wrote in school a dark essay about a nightmare I had, I was told that really wasn't appropriate to write and that I shouldn't write these things.

So I still struggle with this fear of judgment. Like, what will people think of me if I write this? I feel like this fear, in particular, is amplified in our cultural situation where people worry about getting canceled.

So the fear of judgment is not just a bad review, or someone saying, “what type of person are you?” but it's also, your career is over. I mean, people should probably fear not selling any books more.

What do you think about fear of judgment and fear of being canceled?

Caroline: I think it is very present, and it's very loud, I think, in the world right now. I think the fear of being judged, I mean, to an extent, I have to go into putting any book out knowing that somebody is not going to like it. So somebody is not going to like my book, and I have to be okay with that.

If everybody likes my book, then I feel like I haven't taken a real stand on anything. So there is that side of it. However, I feel like the fear of getting cancelled is a whole other can of worms. I am seeing that more, that kind of real, large-scale rejection of authors or writers in certain situations, in the arena of traditional publishing, for sure. That's where you're seeing sort of dramatic—not often, anymore—but whenever someone gets a big advance, then there's a lot of pressure and everything gets amplified in that situation.

I think the other thing that happens is that a lot of people fear judgment and fear getting cancelled when they haven't finished the book yet.

The internal critic yammering these fears in your ear tends to leap ahead to the next unknown step in the process.

I've watched this over and over and over again with students. So in the beginning, it's like, “Oh, I don't know if I can finish a whole novel. I don't know if I have enough to say. I don't know if this idea will carry a long enough story.”

So then we move forward, and they've written an entire draft. Then it's like, “I don't know how to revise. I don't know how to do this.” Then they immediately forget how difficult writing the first draft was, and they just want to write a new book. They're like, “Oh, it was so much easier. Writing first drafts was so much easier.”

I think, “Remember that part when you thought it wasn't going to be possible, and it was totally impossible to do this?” It's as soon as they get comfortable with revision, then there starts to be fears about publication, fears about rejection, fears about bad reviews. Sometimes this is quite far away from when the book is coming out.

I always encourage people to try any aspect of the story that they think should be included and that you can always decide later if you feel good about it being in there, if it feels right.

If you have a sense, “Oh, I think this character needs to go in this direction,” try it, because you're always going to regret holding back and not exploring a deep line of story.

So I think that the cancelled thing is almost like a blown-up fear of people misunderstanding what you're trying to say, fear of being misread, fear of being just wrong. I think, again, it's a fear of doing it wrong.

Joanna: Yes, I agree. It's funny you said that. I often get people who will email me, and they'll be like, “I'm really worried that I'm writing this memoir and someone's going to sue me, like one of my family is going to sue me. What if I say something bad?” I'll often reply, “So where are you?” and they may not have even started the book.

Caroline: Yes, absolutely.

Joanna: It's very, very common, and I think you're right. So this comes to a fear—so we're recording this the day before my next Kickstarter launches. Now, this is my third Kickstarter. By the time this episode goes out, it will probably have finished.

There is this fear, I have a great fear, this is my third one, I've been doing writing and publishing for 15 years, I am scared of failure, and like you said, doing something wrong. There's almost a problem—it's a good problem to have—but some people know who I am at this point. I do have people who will watch this.

That is kind of scary, because what if I don't fund? What if I am a public failure? It is terrifying. What's interesting is I know lots of people who will not even do a Kickstarter, and I was one of them a couple of years ago, because of fear of this public failure because everyone can see how much money you make.

So I wondered about you on this because I think I had said to you, why don't you do a Kickstarter for this one or one of your other books?

What do you think about [a Kickstarter for] this book?

Caroline: I think some of it is about what kind of experience do you want to have putting this book out. I think that part of being a creative, part of the reason that we're not accountants, which is always the profession I seem to gravitate to and use examples, is that things are unpredictable. We never know what's going to happen.

We have to accept that we're unsure how this Kickstarter is going to go. The question that I always ask, and this is one of the ones that I put in the book is, what am I making this mean?

There are two things that are happening here. You've got a book that's coming out, and there's a Kickstarter that people can support, and people may or may not support that.

There are lots of reasons why that might happen that has nothing to do with the value of your writing or your book.

I think that we are very quick to assign all the blame that something might not work on ourselves and to make it mean something global and permanent about us as writers.

When in reality, you know, let's think about it, if we had a Kickstarter start the day various global disasters that we've had over the past few years happened, would that impact the Kickstarter? Probably. So that doesn't mean that it isn't a very well written exciting project.

So I think we take a lot of responsibility on ourselves, and we give a lot of authority to the outside world to determine the value of what we're doing. I think that, in many ways, is what makes it so debilitating.

Joanna: Yes. So acknowledging these fears are an important part of it, and realizing that that might be a form of a block. Being scared of doing something is a block to our growth, even if it's not a block to our writing. It might be the fear of publishing, as we said, or the fear of marketing.

What are some other practical ways to get past these fears, other than recognizing them?

Caroline: I find that breaking them down into much smaller pieces is very helpful. So if you have an item on your list—whether it's a bucket list or your project list because you're working on a project—that is so large you could not complete it in a day, let alone a week, let alone months.

So if there's an item on there like “finish novel”, then that tends to create blocks because your mind doesn't know how to engage with it at all. Rather than, okay, “make notes on chapter three about how this character is going to get stuck in a cave.” I just made that up. You know, that's something that you can actually do in a sitting.

So I find that making sure to break things down into smaller bits helps to deal with blocks. Often blocks are not even about fear, they're just about the brain is not able to process an item that large and has no way to engage with it productively. So that's one thing that can happen.

Another thing that can happen is that there's something going on underneath. I think that this Kickstarter example you gave is one of those examples. So it's like okay, “plan the Kickstarter,” “execute the Kickstarter.” You've broken it down into little tiny steps, and it's still not happening. I think that's because there's some sort of belief lurking underneath.

So if you find you're trying to do something with your writing project, and that might be making notes about chapter three and how we're going to get her stuck in the cave, and you just cannot sit down and make any notes about this cave, then I think it's important to look at, okay, what am I making this mean in this moment?

What am I feeling underneath here? Where am I afraid I'm headed? Where am I afraid this is going to happen? With the Kickstarter, it could be, I'm going to be humiliated. No one is ever going to buy another one of my books again if they see this flop.

If you have this issue about making notes about going into the cave, it could be about that I'm afraid I'm going to make the wrong choice for the story. So whenever we get to the heart of what the fear is, I try looking at, okay, well what if that happens?

Don't try to avoid it. We're all like la-la-la with our fingers in our ears, and we don't want to think about what if the Kickstarter flops. We can't think about that. Or what if I make the “wrong choice” about the story?

What if we think about it like, okay, if the Kickstarter doesn't work out for this book, then what will I do next? If we have a plan in place, I find that immediately it doesn't feel quite as loaded because things that are unknown, and amorphous, and undefined are very difficult to engage with, in the same way that a giant to-do list item is very difficult to engage with.

If I say, okay, the Kickstarter fails, then I would probably go ahead and release the book and just not do the hardback edition or whatever I had planned to do with the Kickstarter. That's probably what I would do.

Then we have to ask the question—I mean, I'm getting in the weeds with the Kickstarter—but it's like, okay, what was I kickstarting? Is this more about people being strapped for cash at the moment than it is about book sales or interest?

Joanna: Yes, I think you're right. Coming to that question —

What's the worst that can happen?

With a Kickstarter, the worst that can happen is you don't fund, and as you said, you have to figure out a different way of publishing. Sure, it's pretty embarrassing, but hey, you can mitigate that by putting a really low number on your funding. You know, even now, I do.

I think what's interesting, you said this earlier, that part of being creative is this unpredictable nature, and that is why we do it. As you say, if we wanted a repeatable monthly career, like in accounting or bookkeeping, that kind of monthly, it's the same every month, and that's not what we do.

If there wasn't a level of on predictability, then I guess we would be bored, and we wouldn't do this. I mean, one of the reasons people stop writing books in a series and they move to another series, or they change genre, is because they get bored.

I think embracing the unpredictable nature of creativity is part of the fun.

Caroline: I think we just have to remind ourselves that sometimes. One thing, this is a really weird neurological trick, is that the physiological symptoms of anxiety and fear and the physiological symptoms of excitement are quite similar. Sometimes you can reroute it because the nerves are actually quite close together that fire when this happens.

So I had a psychologist once say, “You know, you can get it to jump the track if when you're feeling all of that pent up anxiety and excitement, to just say over and over, ‘I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited.'” Like, what if this is really about you being super excited about the Kickstarter, rather than scared?

Joanna: Yes, that actually used to come up in professional speaking, and most people are more scared of speaking in public than they are of dying.

Caroline: They're more scared speaking in public than anything, like literally anything. They'd rather get their leg torn off than speak in public.

Joanna: When I did my training more than a decade ago, I remember — 

One of my professional speaking teachers used to say, “It's not about getting rid of the butterflies, it's about getting them to fly in formation,” so harnessing the butterflies.

When I'm about to speak, I still get a bad stomach, and I need the toilet every five minutes, and all of this kind of stuff. I still feel very, very nervous, but I try and reframe it, as you say, as excitement.

It's interesting because with speaking, you've got that moment when you're going to step onto a stage. So I guess for authors, it could be pressing like the launch button on Kickstarter, which actually is a launch button, which is different to setting up a pre-order, which isn't quite so scary. I guess sending off a pitch letter, for example. Again, when you do that with publishing, there's more of a time delay, right?

Caroline: Yes, yes.

Joanna: When we're speaking, it's like, there's the stage.

You're either on stage or you're not.

Caroline: Exactly, and it's so clearly defined, so I think it's easier to deal with. The thing with writing is that there is a lot of lurchy process. There's a lot of hurry up and wait.

I spent months writing this draft, then I went through the process of edits, then I went through the process of a cover designer, giving notes, all of this, and then formatting all the files and getting them uploaded everywhere. That's all a lot of busy work. Then it goes out, and you just have to wait and see.

I mean, you keep talking about the book, you share it, but there's really a point when you have to let go of control. I think that in many cases, at least for me, is the scariest part. Having to just sit and wait and be patient, and not know exactly how it's going to go and not be able to do something constantly to influence that.

Joanna: Yes, well, coming to changing things later and the business side of things. This is interesting because you rebranded that first book, and you re-covered it to match this new release.

Tell us about why you rebranded the first book and the challenges of changing a book title and a book cover.

Caroline: Yes, I decided to rebrand the book, which came out as Story Arcana in 2019 because—this is one of those, why was this not completely obvious to you, Caroline—I subsequently launched a course also called Story Arcana, and then wondered why people were getting confused as to what content was included in the course and what content was included in the book.

They are quite different, so I was having to explain this constantly. So when this book was going to come out, I thought it would be really nice to have a cohesive look for a series of books. I've always admired your cohesive look on your series of guides for writers.

So I thought, okay, this is my chance to do that, and this is also my chance to really make it clear that this book is different than the course, and yet related. They're all related to tarot, but there are different content in each piece. So that was the original thought process.

Then I wanted to dive into a look that felt more reflective of the Tarot aspect. So it was fun to get a cover designer to share the look and feel that I wanted. I wanted it to feel a little bit like a tarot card, and yet be linked in some ways to the brand that I have.

She used the same font for my name that I have on my website so that it was all sort of connected. I just wanted something that stood out more and that stood out as a unit. It ended up being a really satisfying process.

Joanna: So what are the challenges of doing it, though? I mean, like practicalities? I've done this multiple times, but people always are like, “Oh, my goodness, how do you do that? Don't you lose all your reviews on the first book?” What were some of the more technical challenges?

Caroline: Oh, yes. What my big fear was, if we're going into the fears, was that somebody would buy the book titled The Author's Journey, get it, and then say, “This is just like the book I have already. What is this?”

One of the technical challenges was figuring out how to be very clear. So I put it on the copyright page, “This is a second edition.”

I have it listed as the second edition on all of the sites. So I had to find places to mention that it was a second edition, that it had been formerly published under this title. I wanted to be really transparent about that. So that was one of the challenges.

I think I was okay with losing the reviews because I just wanted to start fresh, and I just wanted it to feel different. So yes, you do go back to zero with those, but I was confident that those who had read the new book would then possibly want to read the old book or would just be able to jump over to that, and that it would just take care of itself over time.

Joanna: Okay, well, that is interesting because you don't have to lose your reviews if you upload the files into the same Kindle. You do have to publish a new print book. With Stone of Fire, there's reviews on there from when it was called Pentecost, originally.

So all I've done with the Kindle, and we're just talking about Amazon, but all the sites are the same, with the Kindle book you can just change the title, you can change the author name, you can change pretty much everything. You can upload a new cover, upload a new file.

Print books, as you said, you have to upload a new print book. What I found is, because most of my reviews were on the Kindle book anyway, when you link a new print edition, it just links up like that. You have to use a new print book when you do all of that new. So you don't have to lose it, but as you said, you were happy starting again. I think there's a difference between deciding it's a completely new edition, which is different to a new cover, basically.

Caroline: I didn't want to mislead anyone, but I also changed the cover to increase discoverability. I now had people who were willing to blurb the book, so I wanted people to see a cover with those on it. I was hoping that this wasn't about a pretty new addition for the existing reader, but that this would increase discoverability for additional readers.

Then the other bit was that previously I did all my distribution through Ingram, and this time I distributed through Amazon separately, in addition to doing distribution through Ingram.

Joanna: Okay, for your print. So you did eBooks through Ingram before?

Caroline: I did. Now, I have done again, just because I do not have this sort of enthusiasm that you have to separately go to Kobo, and Nook, and all of these places to upload files. I was like, it's okay with me, it's going go to all of them under that umbrella. I haven't gone quite as wide, but I sort of shift that as I go. That was part of the reason as well, was that I had not gone through KDP the first time, and now I have.

Joanna: That makes sense. This is also interesting, it kind of circles back to the beginning.

You didn't do it wrong. You did it the way you wanted to do it at the time.

Caroline: Yes.

Joanna: Then you changed your mind later on, and you wrote another book, and it emerged, and thus it became something different, and so you changed it. This is the magic, right? This is the magic of being in control. You can do whatever the hell you want. Yay!

Caroline: Yes, and that has been really great. I could dip my toe in and do what I was comfortable with in 2019. I've learned a lot since then, and I was excited to apply it, and so that's what I did.

Joanna: Well, then on that—

Are you narrating the audiobook?

Caroline: That has been a fun question to consider because given that, and I'm sure you face this conundrum as well, given that I have a voice that people know from the podcast, I feel like I want to narrate it myself.

I have had someone offer to narrate it who has a lovely voice, and I have been going back and forth about that. I think in the end, I will probably do it myself, just because I feel like podcast listeners would expect my voice as part of it.

I think that with fiction, I do not plan to narrate my own fiction because I have a limited range of voices I can do, but most of them are impersonating my cats. I don't think anyone wants to hear a murder mystery with cat voices.

Joanna: I don't know. Cozy cat mystery is a thing.

Caroline: It is, but that's not what I write. So, sadly, there's a mismatch on that one. I think part of it is mostly just having the personal bandwidth to go back in and do this. So I think the audiobook is probably going to have to wait until the fall because I've got a novel up on deck to finish this summer.

I'm so excited to get back into that, that I don't want any distractions from it. So I think the audiobook is maybe going to come out later this year.

Joanna: Yes, I think it's a good choice to narrate it when it's nonfiction, when it's like a personal book, when you have a podcast and you're used to doing audio. All of those are very good reasons.

So coming to the podcast, you are currently on season 10 of The Secret Library Podcast, which is great. People should go listen to that. You have recently moved to Substack as a platform.

Could you comment on podcasting and Substack as a platform?

As marketing platforms for new authors or for existing creators who are thinking about different options?

Caroline: Yes, absolutely. Well, there were many reasons why I wanted to bring the podcast over to Substack. I had spoken to a number of creatives who had done so and had had a positive experience.

I think that one of the first reasons was the sort of justification, or the original logic of creating the podcast, was to build a community around the topic, and also to build a community resource for writers.

I had done a lot of bizarre things which I don't recommend, like I don't recommend having multiple Substacks that are separate publications. I think that the sections feature is a better way to go. So at the end of 2023, I just decided I wanted one Substack to rule them all, which is now called Book Alchemy.

So podcast episodes go live, but I also write longer form, or not always longer form, but different reflections on writing life that feels like a blog. I very much enjoy that. So I wanted those two to live together, and I wanted there to be an opportunity for people to comment and to just have more conversation around the process.

As a podcaster, it can feel quite weird and lonely to just record a bunch of stuff and put it out there. Then people would write back to newsletters and such and say how much it meant to them, but there isn't really a dialogue around the content. So part of moving to Substack was around wanting that conversation to happen.

That hasn't entirely developed yet because I think after nine years of doing this podcast, people are really used to being subscribed in their podcast app, and they listen when a show shows up, but they are not really trained. I never really encouraged or trained them to click through to the show notes and interact. So I think that has been a slower process.

I think it's more about encouraging people already on Substack to listen and then be in the conversation there. The people who read my articles are very eager to have comments and chat, and we go back and forth all the time. I love it. So that has been really nice. It's just about getting the podcast into that headspace as well.

Joanna: Do you think your book sales are primarily from your existing audience? Or—

Have you found that Substack has been useful for the book launches as well?

Caroline: I think it has, in that I have done some things, like currently as we as we record this, I have a book giveaway open. So I'm going to give away three books in a couple of days, and they're open to anyone who is an annual subscriber to my Substack. So I'll be drawing.

So it's sort of like, if you're a member, you're entered into this drawing. I plan to continue that practice because it's really fun. With people who are on the podcast who have books coming out, we can do book giveaways for their books and such. So that's been really fun.

People are really eager to reshare this kind of thing. If you have an event like that going, people are happy to share. It's just a really nice supportive community that I've found in my corner of Substack, specifically.

Joanna: That's great.

Where can people find Writing Through Fear, and your Substack, and the podcast, and everything you do online?

Caroline: Absolutely. I think the easiest place to go is CarolineDonahue.com. You can find the book page, there is a handy-dandy banner at the top that you can click on to get to the book order page.

The book is available on Amazon pretty much everywhere. It's on Kobo all over the world. It's at Barnes and Noble. Many, many outlets. There is a page for the book when you click through, and it has all of the places that are currently available in pretty much every English language market. So that is there.

Then the Substack is at book-alchemy.com. You can get to the podcast at SecretLibraryPodcast.com. It'll forward you right to the podcast page, but you can search for the podcast on pretty much any podcast player and it's there.

Joanna: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for your time, Caroline. That was great.

Caroline: Thank you so much for having me. It's always a joy to talk to you.

The post Writing Through Fear With Caroline Donahue first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
What are some of the common fears that writers face? How can we work through them in order to create more freely? Caroline Donahue gives her tips in this interview. In the intro, How to avoid indie author scams [ALLi; Writer Beware]; Financial strategi... What are some of the common fears that writers face? How can we work through them in order to create more freely? Caroline Donahue gives her tips in this interview.



In the intro, How to avoid indie author scams [ALLi; Writer Beware]; Financial strategies and mindset [Self Publishing Advice]; Apple Intelligence at WWDC [The Verge; Marketing against the Grain]; “Not a chef, but an emotion creator.” Massimo Bottura on the Possible Podcast.



Plus, Spear of Destiny is on its last day; Thoughts on photography permissions for commercial use — and permission in general; Voodoo Vintners; Winchester pictures; Limeburn Hill vineyard pictures.







This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Caroline Donahue is an author, podcaster, and book coach. Her latest book is Writing Through Fear: A Story Arcana Guide.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The most common fears writers face



* How the fear of not being considered a “real writer” holds you back



* Overcoming the fear of judgement and being cancelled



* Fearing things before you are anywhere near them in the process



* Breaking down projects into smaller, more manageable tasks



* Embracing the unpredictable nature of creativity



* The challenges and reasons for rebranding a book



* Substack as a podcasting platform and community tool




You can find Caroline at CarolineDonahue.com,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:11:35
Click Testing Ideas And Selling Direct With Steve Pieper https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/10/click-testing-ideas-and-selling-direct-with-steve-pieper/ Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:02:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36327 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/10/click-testing-ideas-and-selling-direct-with-steve-pieper/#respond https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/10/click-testing-ideas-and-selling-direct-with-steve-pieper/feed/ 0 <p>What are the pros and cons of selling direct and building an ecommerce business for your books? How can you use click testing on Meta to help refine your creative and book marketing ideas? Steve Pieper explains in this interview. In the intro, The Hotsheet with Jane Friedman; 20 ways you should be using AI […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/10/click-testing-ideas-and-selling-direct-with-steve-pieper/">Click Testing Ideas And Selling Direct With Steve Pieper</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the pros and cons of selling direct and building an ecommerce business for your books? How can you use click testing on Meta to help refine your creative and book marketing ideas? Steve Pieper explains in this interview.

In the intro, The Hotsheet with Jane Friedman; 20 ways you should be using AI in publishing [PerfectBound]; Artificial Intelligence? No, Collective Intelligence [Ezra Klein with Holly Herndon]; AI may take our jobs, but not our creativity [Claire Silver on The TED AI Show].

Plus, De-Extinction of the Nephilim; my webinar on Discovery Writing as part of the Kickstarter – you can buy it in the bundle or just buy the ebook and get the webinar as an Add-On. Only available until 18 June at JFPenn.com/destiny; Writing modern thrillers based on ancient relics and historical places; Ancient Heroes Podcast;

supportonpatreon

Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn

Steve Pieper is a USA Today bestselling thriller author under the name Lars Emmerich. He's also an entrepreneur and business consultant, specializing in digital marketing and selling direct with his course, AMMO, Author Marketing Mastery through Optimization.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Why more indie authors are embracing selling direct
  • How the emergence of courses has helped mature the indie author market
  • Differences in the process of selling a print book on Amazon vs. Shopify
  • Cash flow management when selling direct
  • When does it make sense for an author to start selling direct?
  • Using click testing to test a book idea with your target audience
  • Steve's Click Testing and Direct Sales courses — If you're interested, please consider using my affiliate link and supporting the show: www.TheCreativePenn.com/clicktesting

You can find Steve at AMMOauthor.com and his books at Lars.buzz.

Transcript of Interview with Steve Pieper

Joanna: Steve Pieper is a USA Today bestselling thriller author under the name Lars Emmerich. He's also an entrepreneur and business consultant, specializing in digital marketing and selling direct with his course, AMMO, Author Marketing Mastery through Optimization. So welcome back to the show, Steve.

Steve: Thank you very much. It's such a pleasure to be here, Jo.

Joanna: So you were last on the show in January 2023 when we went into your background. So we're just going to jump into the topic today.

It seems like selling direct has gone mainstream in the author community since you were last here.

What do you think has happened to make authors embrace selling direct in a much bigger way over the last 18 months?

Steve: It's a great question. I think a few things have combined to make it more mainstream, as you say. I think the first thing is that Amazon has effectively capped eBook sales prices at $9.99, and nobody's capped the advertising expenses at any particular number.

So it becomes more and more important, as ad costs to generate interest in your books continue to increase along with everything else—aside from eBook prices—it's more and more important to be able to track your metrics.

You want to be able to reach people who are purchasers, as opposed to people who are just nearly kind of curious.

Those things are made possible when you sell direct because your store knows exactly who purchases from you. You get their email address, you get their name, your store processes their credit card.

That information can be fed back to Meta, so Facebook and Instagram, to make your ads operate more efficiently and to bring you new purchasers more profitably. So I think that's the first part of it.

I think the second part is that we've heard plenty of stories of some fairly high-profile authors having trouble with their Amazon accounts, often through no fault of their own.

Whenever you run a big enterprise, such as Amazon, you have to pay attention to the quality of the listings and the quality of the accounts. You also have to deal with people who are trying to abuse the accounts to make a quick buck.

The only way to do that at scale is algorithmically, which means the machines are making decisions about whose account to close and leave open. Often Amazon doesn't even ask the authors what was happening, you just find that your account has been closed. So I think those things have combined to make direct sales a more viable option for people.

The third reason is that we've noticed, and this has been true since I first started selling directly in 2017 —

Whenever you advertise for your direct sales system, there's this beautiful thing called a cross-channel effect.

This is where your book advertisements that point to your store so that people can purchase from you, they produce sales through your store, but they also get people excited who are diehard Amazon customers, for example.

So they might see your ad for your store, like what they see, but just prefer to buy from Amazon because of convenience or familiarity or whatever else.

So it's kind of a two-for-one deal, and in some cases, like a three- or four-for-one kind of deal, depending on who you are, in terms of advertising dollars and sales that come in.

Joanna: Yes, just coming back on that Amazon cap on $9.99. At London Book Fair, I actually talk to an Amazon person, and said, “Look, it's been capped at $9.99 for like forever. A while ago, it wasn't that big a deal, but it is a real big deal now.”

I mean, I write nonfiction as well, and nonfiction, in particular, can take a lot higher prices on eBooks. So I agree with you that this is a bit of an issue. Do you think they'll ever change that ebook cap? I mean, inflation is hitting everything, it seems, except eBook sales prices.

Steve: Exactly. I don't know for the life of me why they haven't yet. It seems in their best interest, as well, because they're taking 30% of the sale price.

So I don't know what economics they're looking at, what data they have. I mean, I can't imagine they have much data on sales performance above $9.99 because you earn half the royalty above $9.99. I can't imagine many authors at all have chosen to take that route.

So I have no idea why they haven't made those adjustments yet. I mean, I think it's far more appropriate that if there were a cap at that royalty rate, it seems to me that it would be on par with what you typically see traditionally published eBooks priced at, like around $14.99.

Joanna: Yes, exactly. So that will be interesting if they ever change that. I guess they're still trying to push people to subscription for eBooks.

I also wondered whether another thing that shifted is almost the maturity of the indie author market, and also the emergence of different ways to learn. I mean, your course has been around for a number of years now, but there are other people starting to teach.

[More on selling direct here.]

There are, I guess, even people like myself being more vocal about it, even though I sold my first PDF online in 2008, but it certainly wasn't the way you do it. So do you think there's also maybe this confidence? I mean, it was 2007 when the Kindle launched, so we're at 15 years of an indie author market now.

Steve: I absolutely think the indie author market has matured.

I think in the beginning, the people who did really well in the early days of the Kindle, were those folks who had a catalogue and had their rights returned to them, or who had repurchased their rights.

They had a dozen or fifteen or so books to place on the platform, and they were midlist authors in sort of a traditionally published ecosystem. They found tremendous purchase in the new eBook ecosystem, and there were some really high-quality authors there.

I think what's happened over the next, like you say, 15ish years in the meantime, is that many, if not most, really high-quality authors, they're just not seeing much economic advantage to the traditionally published route. The royalty split is not attractive.

There's a lot of authors who are in our community who are doing extremely well, who at one point were traditionally published, and their careers only began accelerating when they got their rights back and when they became their own business owner and their own business manager for their career.

Joanna: Let's get into the benefits and the challenges of selling direct.

You mentioned the data that you get and the cross-channel effect, but what are some other things? What are some of the good things, and also some of the challenges?

Steve: So once you start getting into the advertisement game, and with sixty million titles available 24/7, 365, at least on Amazon and many other retailers, it's really hard to have anyone discover your books unless you're actively advertising.

Or if you're spending a tremendous amount of effort to build a brand, a personal author brand, that also works. It tends to take three to five to seven years to do.

As soon as you get into that ecosystem, you are not just a writer, you are now an entrepreneur. You have to run a real business there. You have to pay very close attention to your cash flow and you need to be a professional about how you test and create your ads.

The other thing that happens is that as soon as you start spending real money to bring eyeballs to your books, it rapidly exposes any weaknesses in your product quality. The first inkling you might have that things aren't quite right is that people just aren't buying your books.

So what you find along the way is that you have to pay a good bit of attention to exactly how you're presenting books, both on your Amazon product detail page, but also if you're doing direct sales, on your Shopify pages and your sales pages leading to a Shopify purchase.

So it opens the door to business operations, and many authors just want to do the thing, we just want to write.

Again, in a world with sixty million books, it's fine if you just want to write because you love writing, but —

If you have commercial aspirations, if you'd like to make a living or you'd like to make additional money on the side, it takes a more disciplined approach and more methodical approach.

That can certainly be a challenge for authors who are already busy, or sometimes holding down day jobs, and raising kids, and all of those things.

Joanna: So let's come back on this. I feel like for many years, we did say that we were entrepreneurs. I certainly did. I have a book, Business for Authors: How to be an Author Entrepreneur. So I did use the word entrepreneur.

When I look at now how to run a Shopify store and essentially an ecommerce business, I think, actually, we didn't know what we were doing before. So just on that, the process flow of—let's just take print, I think print is a really good example.

If you sell a print book on Amazon, compared to selling a print book on your Shopify store, what's the difference?

Because I feel like a lot of people don't understand the difference.

Steve: That's a terrific question. So hidden behind the Amazon paperback purchase is also an Amazon logistics operation to print a copy of your book that is just sold.

Or you may have negotiated a wholesale order with a third-party printer and shipped those books to one of Amazon's warehouses for them to fulfill and pick from the shelves and package and ship to your customer.

All of that's happening behind the scenes if you are selling paperbacks on Amazon, but you have to actually understand how to do those things and set them up so that they function if you're selling paperbacks from your Shopify store.

You should, especially now, we've already talked about the delta between book prices and how they've gone, compared to advertising costs and how they've gone. So depending on your genre, pretty much anything other than romance, you'd really need to be very serious about a paperback operation as well. So it opens a few different discussions.

There are print on demand services, and depending on where you're at, they can make a great deal of sense logistically. They do tend to be quite expensive because they have to do all the logistical things, but also run their company, and provide profit for their shareholders, and all of those things.

So you can hook those up to your Shopify store. such that whenever an order comes in, they're just fulfilled behind the scenes for you by a print on demand company.

The difficulty with that arrangement is that depending on your format size and your page count, your profit margins can be prohibitively thin, and it can be difficult to recoup costs.

The other way that folks go and the other things to think about is to negotiate a wholesale order to drive your per book cost down. That increases your gross profit per sale. So for every sale at a given price for your paperback, you make more money because your expenses are lower.

What that means is that you either have to fulfill that purchase yourself, meaning you have to pack and ship, and many of our authors do that. Or they're also author assistants who will pack and ship on your behalf.

Then there are also third-party logistics companies that will warehouse your titles until sold, and then when they're sold, they will pull them from their shelves in the warehouse and pack and ship them.

There's a host of considerations that you suddenly have to think about if you're selling directly to your readers.

It sounds scary, and it certainly can be. It really helps to have a few tools to help you calculate costs and make heads or tails of the process of finding the right source for your books at a good compromise between cost and quality, and also fulfillment time.

You have to look carefully at the prices in your genre to understand under what circumstances it's likely to be profitable for you.

So as you mentioned, it's suddenly a whole host of things that are really common to an ecommerce business, but have not been as common to the author world, especially the indie author business, over the last five-ish years.

Joanna: I think this is really important because I've had more and more emails recently saying —

“Oh, it's really hard to sell a book on Amazon now. Oh, it's really hard to sell direct. So what should I do?”

I'm like, you could try pitching traditional publishing. I think it's really important that we emphasize that we are running this ecommerce business by selling direct.

If you do want to work with a traditional publisher, then there is a reason they get most of the money. It's because they also have those logistics set up and all of that.

So I do feel like it's a choice to go this way. I use Bookvault here in the UK, and they have great print prices. So I find that I actually can make more on selling a paperback than I even do on some of my eBooks, in terms of profits. I think this is very exciting.

[Click here to go to the interview with Alex from BookVault.]

So I guess I would say to encourage people is that once you get it set up—this is the other thing, isn't it—once you get your head around this, you get it set up, it is just a sort of plug and play the next book.

I found there's a lot of work upfront, and then the work is much less going forward.

Steve: That's absolutely right. Once you've figured out how to get it uploaded to your store or to the service, then it's pretty smooth sailing.

Bookvault.app has a tremendous reputation in the UK, and they're in the process of expanding over into the US. What they're finding over here is that they're subject to the existing printing and shipping infrastructure in the United States, which leaves a lot to be desired.

The distances that have to be covered here in the US between customer locations and business locations, those change the economics quite a bit for those printing companies. So it's a bit harder.

Here in the US, the print on demand company primarily, at least with a terrific Shopify interface, primarily is Lulu. I have been extremely happy with their quality. They are expensive, and it does eat into profit margins.

So Bookvault is a beautiful solution in the UK, currently. There's not currently a beautiful solution, at my page count, in the US for print on demand. It's doable, and a lot depends on the quality of your marketing assets.

A lot depends on your marketing assets in general. Like a terrific book is table stakes to be a professional author, and a terrific marketing system and process is also table stakes to be a successful indie author today, I believe.

Joanna: I kind of think it always has been, but certainly it's just changed. The things that used to work more easily back in the day, now, as you say, are more expensive, or just things have changed, or there's more books.

Let's just talk about one of the very, very good things about selling direct, which is how fast you get the money.

This is such a big deal. I feel like people don't understand it.

If you're traditionally published, you might not get paid for months or sometimes years. As an indie author, you still only get paid 60 days later, 90 days later, sometimes longer depending on the contract and the system.

I have my Shopify set up to pay me every day. Now, I know some people don't have that, they have it every week or whatever, but I really like making money every day.

So talk a bit about the cash flow with the print books. Because that's also different in terms of when you get the money and who pays for things.

Steve: Absolutely, it's so important, so critical, not to have to carry your own advertising costs for two to three months. If you spend $1 today on an ad and it produces a purchase, you want that dollar back because your credit card company is going to ask for it when your credit card bill is due.

If you're waiting that 60 to 90 day window for Amazon to issue their royalty payment to you for today's sale, well, you have to float that cost.

So that either means that you can't advertise to your full capacity, you can't sell as many books as you would otherwise be able to sell, because you can't afford personally to keep paying these ad costs without getting cash flow back.

So it's a much slower ramp up to selling books at scale when you have to wait up to three months to get paid. Whereas if you buy your ads today, and today or tomorrow, like the next business day, that money shows up in your bank account.

I'm like you, I want I want that money deposited every single day. I love those deposits. I don't like them sitting wherever they're at, I like them in my account. So you can pay off that credit card bill for your advertisements every single month, and it just makes everything much healthier.

The other thing is that if you're waiting for royalty payments to come in, and you're purchasing your own copies of your paperbacks or your hard covers to sell, those orders come out of pocket while you're waiting for those royalties to come back.

So again, it's just a much slower and much less responsive scaling capacity. That's important because there are seasons in an author's year, and also in an author's career, when you catch a bit of a flyer where there's a lot of demand suddenly for what you're offering.

It's really important to be able to take advantage of that, but if you're waiting around three months to get the cash available to purchase more books to sell to the people who want them right now, that's a really frustrating position to be in.

The cash flow management in an author career is a thousand times easier when you make a sale today and the money shows up tomorrow in your account.

Joanna: Yes, and as you say, if you do hit some big thing, like I know someone who had a really massive day on TikTok, and say you get a thousand orders for your paperbacks through to your store today, you get that money, but you also have to pay the printer.

So one of the confusions that I feel people have is that at the moment, you don't have to “pay” for Amazon to print your book if you go through KDP print because they take it out of the sales. So you never have to pay them out of your pocket.

Whereas when we're selling direct, we're paying for the printing, and then a customer pays us. So I feel like this is so important, this cashflow. If you're doing a massive campaign, then just remember this cash flow management. When does the money come in? When does it go out? Again, once you get it sorted, you can manage it.

When in an author's journey might they consider selling direct through your methods?

You're mainly talking about Shopify, which is quite different to Kickstarter. Some people might be on Payhip, some people might sell at a local school, for example. So at what sort of points should authors consider this?

Steve: That's a terrific question. The platform that you're selling from, whether it's Shopify, or Payhip, or Samcart, there's a bunch of them out there, the considerations are quite similar.

What we're seeing across our community, and we're close to 1200 or 1300 authors strong in our community at the moment, and we have some folks who are doing really well and can generate a purchase of a bundle of their books for $6, $7, or $8 in advertising costs. Those tend to be outliers.

What we're seeing on average, is that the average cost to bring in a new paying customer is between $12 and $20. That's a range, it's not like Author A gets good sales at $12, and Author B gets sales at $20. That's a range that every author experiences throughout the week or day or month.

There's a lot of fluctuation running any kind of business. You can tell this just by looking at your Amazon purchases back in the dashboard. Some day you sell more books than others, and it's the same when you're selling directly. So that $12 to $20 customer acquisition cost, it's relatively agnostic to the advertising platform that you're using.

We use Meta because they're by far the best. I test these every year, spend thousands of dollars, and I have always wound up at the same place. Facebook and Instagram are where book buyers mostly are, at least from an ad perspective.

When you have to recoup a $12 to $20 customer acquisition cost, that dictates how you need to structure your business.

So you have to have enough products to sell to make that money back in profit, and then some, so that you keep selling for your store.

So if you're a novelist, and you're selling one or two titles so far, it's really rare to do that profitably anywhere, including on Amazon, but it's really rare to do it profitably if you're selling directly due to those acquisition cost reasons as well.

The number of books that you have is important. Each of them have to be professional quality, professional grade.

They have to be so good that your readers know that they're going to love them and tell their friends about them.

So that's what you're aiming for product quality-wise, and you need a bunch of products that way. So if you write in the romance genre, we typically see around eight to ten titles being sort of the price of entry for all the goodness that comes from selling directly to your readers.

In other genres where there are typically longer page counts and a slightly less voracious reader community, we see in the neighborhood of five to eight titles.

It's useful to know too, like what's a sustainable number of titles. A good metric for that is, I like to think of it in terms of looking across our community and asking myself, what's the smallest number of titles that an author has had that they have used to sell over a million dollars’ worth of their books?

What's magical about a million dollars? It's just a nice milestone, but what it really tells you is that their setup is resilient. So it's not like they have a good week, and then everything falls apart.

To sell a million dollars’ worth of your books, you're in pretty rare air, which means that you have a system that is working really well for you. You have the right number of high-quality titles to work for you.

So if you are a novelist, the smallest number of titles that an author has used to sell over a million dollars of their books is eight.

If you're a nonfiction author, this is an interesting one, the smallest number of titles that one of our nonfiction authors has used to sell over a million dollars’ worth of their books is three.

That's a little bit misleading because it was one main title with a workbook and an associated poetry book. So it was like a suite of three products, but really the vanguard was led by that one individual title.

So I mention that just to give you a sense for what you can expect if you're looking to build a sustainable business that produces enough cash flow to be really interesting and really worth your time. So those are good numbers I think to aim for. If you are topically on point in your nonfiction title, that can be done with a single title, but it's really rare.

If you are a novelist, then I would be looking more toward five to eight as really the point when you can expect, if you're doing a good job, testing your marketing assets and elements, and testing your books, and writing high quality professional titles, that's when you can reasonably expect to start doing so profitably in a direct sales context.

Joanna: I'll put a little caveat on this, which is if you have one or two books but you still want to do this, you just can't do big paid ad spend.

If you're building up your author brand slowly, you can sell direct just through driving your own traffic through building an email list, or if you have a podcast like I have had for many years.

This is how I've done it. I've moved platforms over the years as things have grown.

I do think that some people are just launching on either Kickstarter or through Shopify, and they don't necessarily have to do a lot of ad spend, they don't have to sell a lot of books. Your course and your system is for the very, very ambitious people who have more books.

That's what we all want, but sometimes if people are starting out now, I wonder if going through building the store and learning the business can also be beneficial, even if they're not expecting the massive sales. Just with the caveat that they're not spending a ton on ads.

Steve: I believe that's absolutely true. That's what I mean by the brand building. Like if you're building a brand through podcasts, and in emails, and newsletters, and appearances at conferences, and media appearances and such, that is absolutely effective. In fact, that's ultimately where all of us need to end up if we really want to grow into a really recognized and successful brand.

I will say that there are certain elements that we teach that are quite important no matter where you are in your author career. So it's not like you should wait to engage with paid ads until you have eight titles or five titles, it's actually kind of tragic to do that.

The reason is that we tend to overestimate the quality and marketability of our own work. So one of the worst situations, and I see it, unfortunately, over and over again, where people come into the community with lots of titles, which need lots of work.

So the way around this is not to ask your friends if they like your work or not, to ask your family members if you're going to be a star author, but to —

Test your ideas in front of total strangers who are known to read in your market.

This is different than sending a survey out to your email list. It's different to asking people in person for feedback because they're solving a different equation. They're thinking about their relationship with you and your feelings.

So they're not directly answering this question, “Would you buy this right now?” That's the question. You can't ask them directly, you just have to put things in front of them that give them the opportunity to show you, yes or no, how resonant, how effective, your messaging is.

So we do this, and the name of the process is called click testing.

[You can use my affiliate link for the course at www.TheCreativePenn.com/clicktesting]

Click testing has been used in about 75-plus different industries. It's helped to drive over a billion dollars, including $200 million dollars per year in extra revenue.

Click testing is a way to test a number of your ideas very quickly, but also with high fidelity and a pretty high level of precision.

One of the things that we discovered—and this is like 800 authors, 6000 tests, 50,000 different individual testing elements—one of the really interesting things that we've discovered is that only about 5% of our ideas are good enough to move forward with profitably. So one idea out of twenty.

An idea might be a hook, or a tagline, or a title, or a subtitle. One idea might also be an image or a cover image.

So it's extremely important to de-risk everything you're doing, in my opinion, whether it's advertising to bring traffic to existing titles that you have, or if you're still building your catalogue and still writing, we found that it's quite important to de-risk those future titles by testing your book ideas.

The process, again, that we use to do this is called click testing. It is the foundation of our direct sales program, which is aimed for people, like we talked about, who have a number of high quality titles and want to build a serious ecommerce business around them.

Click testing, on the other hand, benefits and has benefited authors selling anywhere from $0 per month, upwards of a couple million dollars per year. It's actually quite a simple process that just involves running advertisements and treating them in a special way as experiments.

We run them for a brief period of time, and we have a very specific number of impressions that they're shown for. That's just like the number of people who get to see them.

Then we just look at the performance metrics of these little advertisements to guide us to give us an understanding of whether or not that particular idea is worth pursuing either as an advertisement, or even more importantly, worth pursuing at all to make a book out of or to include in your next book.

So the beginning of that process, the direct sales process, actually is click testing. It applies to pretty much anyone at most spots inside of your author career trajectories. Whether you're already selling a lot of books, we've got folks who are multimillion dollar year sellers who have really dramatically improved their profit margins. So they took a lot more home.

Then we've got folks who were beginning who had financially successful titles through testing the ideas and the concepts. It's not just the ideas and concepts, it's also the specific words—as writers, we know this—but it's also the specific words that we use.

So that's a really important way to think, in my opinion. If you want to do this professionally, and if you want your work to be read, it's really important to get midstream and early stream feedback on whether anybody might be interested in reading this book once you're done with it.

Joanna: Yes, and I wanted to talk to you because I have been through the click testing module, and I've always been pretty resistant to this. I tried your course a while back, and it was a lot of data. So I'm not a massive data person, but I did this click testing process, and I actually found it quite fun.

I'll tell you what's different now, and this will help people listening, is ChatGPT. I basically was like, I can't come up with fifteen different taglines, I just can't. But ChatGPT can.

My brain can only think of one or two taglines, or maybe I can't think of any. Maybe I can only write 70,000 words, I can't put it all into like a tagline.

So I used ChatGPT to come up with a lot of the variants for the click testing. I put this on my email to you, but I changed the tagline for Spear of Destiny, which as we speak right now has just launched on Kickstarter. It's already funded.

So I mean, who knows whether that tagline made all the difference, but I certainly changed it. When I did the click testing, and I put in whatever it was, fifteen different variants or however many it was, my one, the one I came up with originally, it performed like number eight or something out of the list.

So I switched it to the one that tested better, and I did that to a market that I normally sell to. So this is what's interesting, this was a Kickstarter tagline. This was not necessarily a whole advertising campaign, but it really, really helped me.

I guess the other thing to say, because we talked before about the conversion ads which were more expensive.

These are click ads. So it doesn't cost you that much to do these tests, does it?

Steve: No, not at all. In fact, we just run it at a relatively low budget of $30 per day. I recommend six tests. The number is six if you're a novelist or a storyteller, or if you are a nonfiction author who solves problems for people.

So each of those tests last one to two-ish days at a $30 per day ad spend. So the whole thing is done in like two weeks. So maybe you've spent $200 to $300 to de-risk your title, or maybe you've spent $200 to $300 total, to arrive at a really high converting advertisement.

Like you mentioned, the things that you learn about what people like, they're not just useful on the book itself or on the advertisement itself, they're useful everywhere you're interacting with your customers. So in your case, on the Kickstarter page. Also on your product detail page, whether that's on your Amazon product page or on your Shopify product page.

Also, if you're doing lead generation and getting people to sign up for your list, what you discover really resonates and really gets people excited to your click testing, guess what, it also gets them excited on the signup page.

Or if you're bringing people to a sales page in a direct sales scenario for your bundle, or for a trilogy that you're offering in paperback, or whatever, those elements really go a long way toward improving every aspect of your business.

You include them in your emails, you include them if you're making videos, if you're writing blog posts. It really is useful when you find beyond a shadow of a doubt the confluence of your particular voice and what you have to say, and also what resonates with your market.

It's really nice when you feel good about the things you're saying your market, and they really respond to it. So it's a really cool tool that way.

Joanna: Yes, so because we're talking about Meta here, we have to talk about what's been going on recently. So we're recording this at the end of May 2024, and the word in the author community in the last month has been the Metapocalypse, where—

Authors have seen a drop in revenue and effectiveness of Facebook ads. Is this the Metapocalypse?

Now, my personal thought is that Meta are rolling out a lot of AI tools, and they're trying to make it easier on us, but these experiments have caused issues. A bit like any of these changes, it's going to have an effect.

Some people have kind of freaked out, gone back into KU with their eBooks, wondering if it will ever come back. What are your thoughts on the short-term, but also the long-term, impact? What will change? What should authors be doing?

Steve: This is such a good question. I've been advertising online since 2003. Back then there wasn't just one search engine, there were like six. So I was advertising on all of them. It was different business and different ecosystems, and they all sort of had their ups and downs.

Then the advent of, first, Facebook, and then Facebook and Instagram ads now under Meta. Those became a real player for us in like the 2015/2016 ballpark, maybe 2014 even. I look back, and about twice a year in some communities someplace, there is the Metapocalypse kind of meme that circulates.

It's really important to understand that in any community of businesses, and authors are no different, at any given moment, we've got authors in our community who are having their best month ever.

Then we have authors in our community—same community, same month, same advertising platform—who are not having good months at all.

There's this continuous up and down in any business, and ours is no different.

One of the things that sort of determines which industry takes up the meme, like the sky has fallen in Facebook land, is just which individuals are having a rough month.

If it's somebody with a prominent platform and they're writing about it, or it's somebody who's got a course on something and they're having their turn in the barrel, as they say for a rough month, it can really feel like things are out of control and we need to make drastic changes.

So let me give you a resource that will stop this kind of anecdotal spread of information which may not be accurate. So there are a couple of analytics companies who connect to your Shopify store and they connect to all of the different ad platforms.

So they see every dollar that thousands upon thousands of ecommerce businesses are spending on every relevant ad platform. They see how much a click is costing, what are the click through rates, how much does it cost to bring in a new customer.

Since they have such a broad view across all the advertising platforms that are relevant to ecommerce and across so many different niche ecommerce stores, it actually gives you a real sense of what's going on.

So the resource I'd like to point everybody to is Northbeam.io. So North like the direction, beam like laser beam, Northbeam.io. They have a Media Buyer Newsletter, and what they do is they send out their statistics monthly. So the main meme that the sky has fallen in Meta-land in the book world, that was on the strength of April's results, for better and worse.

It was really interesting because the recent Northbeam media buyer newsletter, where you can see exactly what market share exists on like Meta vs Google vs YouTube vs TikTok, and you can see trends in whether it's become more expensive or less expensive, more profitable or less profitable.

The April 2024 results were better than the April 2023 results. So from that perspective, there was no Metapocalypse this year, which is really interesting. You can see the difference between what happens socially and anecdotally.

You know, we talk to each other, but we don't have the ability to see what's actually happening from a numbers perspective. So when you fold in that data, it really helps you make more informed decisions.

So how would I use this differently? Like if that data came back and said, “Oh, my gosh, April 2024, it was 25% more expensive than it was in 2023. Things really are looking bleak,” I would consider making significant changes to my business, to the structure of it, to the strategy of it.

Given that it came back, actually, April 2024, was better than April 2023, numerically speaking, that's different. Then my action is, okay, it sounds like I just need to work harder to test newer creative. Maybe test newer hooks, new images, things that are resonating now.

Culture moves at a pretty quick pace, so things that worked, they work for a shorter period of time now. Things are moving so quickly in media and culture, so it's important to be able to make strategic decisions like that with actual information.

It's not like pages and pages and reams and reams of data, it's usually summarized just in one chart, and it fits on your phone. So I recommend that everybody who's buying ads in the book world, subscribe to that Northbeam.io. I'm not affiliated with them, I just think they're awesome. Northbeam.io, and it's called the Media Buyer Newsletter. So that'll keep you from making emotional knee jerk reactions that you could live to regret.

Joanna: I think it comes back to what we were saying at the beginning around being an entrepreneur and having a real business. The reality is, it's not all up and to the right forever. Unfortunately, not everything is like that all the time.

It goes up and down and things change, and that's part of the fun of it, too. I mean, if it was always the same, then it would be so boring. So this is certainly interesting, and as I said, I find the course great. You're a great teacher, and you've recently redone the whole course.

Tell people a bit about the course and who it's most suitable for.

Steve: Thank you, I appreciate that. So there are two programs, and the front door for everybody is click testing because I've just seen almost universally positive results in a whole bunch of different industries.

The reason that the results are positive is because you're learning more about what your market wants, like what do the people actually want and respond to. So it doesn't matter where you're at.

If you're working on that first book, you would definitely want some information that your market is excited about the idea that you're spending so much time, and effort, and energy, and probably money and love, to produce.

Also, if you're selling well, but would like to increase your profit margins, or you'd like to be able to advertise more aggressively to produce more sales, but to do that, you have to be able to advertise more effectively, click testing is for you also.

Like I say it's, it's helped people who have zero books and are making $0 per month, and it's helped people who have many books and who are really big names, not just an indie community, but out in the author world.

It's improved the number of books they're able to sell and the profit margin they're able to sell it at.

So that's called Click Testing for Authors. That's the introductory program. It's the foundation for everything, and the reason it's the foundation for everything that we do inside of our processes is because it teaches you what your customers like. That's really important.

For a subset of folks who have the number and quality of titles that we spoke about earlier, there's a follow-on program called Direct Sales for Authors. Those two modules together are inside of version four of AMMO.

Direct Sales for Authors really hones in on the nuts and bolts of setting up a direct sales system. It gives you a bunch of tools to help you calculate your paperback costs, for example.

That can be a hassle, so we put some spreadsheets together to do all that math for you because people who write aren't always people who love to do math. So that's taken care of for you.

We also walk you through the process of getting your assets to work profitably. It's one thing to set everything up so that it functions, i.e. when you put your credit card in, a book comes out on the other end of that. That's one thing, but getting that process to operate profitably is another thing entirely.

It's a whole process in and of itself, and there's some art and science to it. So we provide tools for that, for those folks who are interested in building a direct sales business and interested in doing so at an exciting scale based on the number of books that you have.

So there's two programs. The first one is Click Testing for Authors. That's for everybody under the sun who writes books, in my opinion.

Then the Direct Sales for Authors is a more focused program for those folks who are in a position to most immediately benefit from a serious direct sales effort.

Joanna: Fantastic. If people would like to use my affiliate link, I'm a happy affiliate. I have done the course, and I think it's great. It is thecreativepenn.com/clicktesting, all one word.

Where else can people find it? I always like to give people the actual link because, of course, we don't expect people to go through my affiliate. Also—

Tell people where your books are, as well.

Because you are a real author, and I think that's really important.

Steve: Yes, thank you. So please do use Joanna's affiliate link. Let's support Jo's podcast and your efforts in everything that you have done for our community for all these years.

If that's not your thing, perfectly fine. AMMOauthor.com. A-M-M-O like Author Marketing Mastery through Optimization. AMMOauthor.com is sort of the front door. If you want to check out my trashy spy thrillers, they're at Lars.buzz. L-A-R-S-dot-B-U-Z-Z.

Joanna: Or “zed, zed” if you are British.

Steve: Depending if you're on the correct side of the pond or the incorrect side of the pond.

Joanna: Right. Well, thanks so much for your time, Steve. That was great.

Steve: Thank you so much, Jo. I really appreciate it.

The post Click Testing Ideas And Selling Direct With Steve Pieper first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
What are the pros and cons of selling direct and building an ecommerce business for your books? How can you use click testing on Meta to help refine your creative and book marketing ideas? Steve Pieper explains in this interview. In the intro, What are the pros and cons of selling direct and building an ecommerce business for your books? How can you use click testing on Meta to help refine your creative and book marketing ideas? Steve Pieper explains in this interview.



In the intro, The Hotsheet with Jane Friedman; 20 ways you should be using AI in publishing [PerfectBound]; Artificial Intelligence? No, Collective Intelligence [Ezra Klein with Holly Herndon]; AI may take our jobs, but not our creativity [Claire Silver on The TED AI Show].



Plus, De-Extinction of the Nephilim; my webinar on Discovery Writing as part of the Kickstarter – you can buy it in the bundle or just buy the ebook and get the webinar as an Add-On. Only available until 18 June at JFPenn.com/destiny; Writing modern thrillers based on ancient relics and historical places; Ancient Heroes Podcast;






Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Steve Pieper is a USA Today bestselling thriller author under the name Lars Emmerich. He's also an entrepreneur and business consultant, specializing in digital marketing and selling direct with his course, AMMO, Author Marketing Mastery through Optimization.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Why more indie authors are embracing selling direct



* How the emergence of courses has helped mature the indie author market



* Differences in the process of selling a print book on Amazon vs. Shopify



* Cash flow management when selling direct



* When does it make sense for an author to start selling direct?



* Using click testing to test a book idea with your target audience



* Steve's Click Testing and Direct Sales courses — If you're interested, please consider using my affiliate link and supporting the show: www.TheCreativePenn.com/clicktesting


]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:03:49
7 Tips For Writing Action Adventure Thrillers With J.F. Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/05/7-tips-for-writing-action-adventure-thrillers-with-j-f-penn/ Wed, 05 Jun 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36272 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/05/7-tips-for-writing-action-adventure-thrillers-with-j-f-penn/#comments https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/05/7-tips-for-writing-action-adventure-thrillers-with-j-f-penn/feed/ 1 <p>What are the tropes of action adventure thrillers? How can you please readers and sell more books? J.F. Penn shares her own tips and also features excerpts from interviews with other thriller writers. J.F. Penn is the award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of the ARKANE action-adventure thrillers, the Mapwalker fantasy adventures, […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/05/7-tips-for-writing-action-adventure-thrillers-with-j-f-penn/">7 Tips For Writing Action Adventure Thrillers With J.F. Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the tropes of action adventure thrillers? How can you please readers and sell more books? J.F. Penn shares her own tips and also features excerpts from interviews with other thriller writers.

J.F. Penn is the award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of the ARKANE action-adventure thrillers, the Mapwalker fantasy adventures, and the Brooke & Daniel crime thrillers, as well as horror, travel memoir, and short stories.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Put your characters in difficult and dangerous situations
  • Writing fight scenes
  • Include a ticking clock and high stakes
  • What is a MacGuffin and how is it used?
  • Research into places and experiences
  • Trust your writing instinct and have fun!
  • Help your readers escape to exciting places
  • Using quotes, and source citation
  • Write a series

If you love action adventure thrillers, check out the ARKANE series by J.F. Penn. Spear of Destiny, book 13, is out now on Kickstarter with special edition signed exclusive cover hardbacks, plus paperback, large print, ebook, audiobook, and bundle deals in all formats.

J.F. Penn with Spear of Destiny

You can find J.F. Penn at www.jfpenn.com, buy books direct at www.JFPennBooks.com, and read the blog or listen to the Books and Travel Podcast at BooksAndTravel.page.

7 Tips for Writing Action Adventure Thrillers with J.F. Penn

I’m an action adventure thriller fan from way back, but what are the hallmarks of the action adventure genre?

Clive Cussler said,

“Adventure is just putting characters in settings and locales that are unfamiliar to the reader and then as the writer, having fun with what happens.”

I’ve always loved adventure stories. As a child I read The Hardy Boys, and King Solomon’s Mines, and I remember the Choose Your Own Adventure books where you would flick to a new page as you made your choice of action.

I loved Clive Cussler’s Dirk Pitt series and read a lot of marine biology books, as I thought I might be able to join NUMA or something like it. I was able to meet Clive before he died at Thrillerfest in New York in 2015 and have a selfie which really made my trip.

J.F. Penn and Clive Cussler (Thrillerfest, 2015)
J.F. Penn and Clive Cussler (Thrillerfest, 2015)

I discovered Wilbur Smith’s African and ancient Egyptian adventures, then Michael Crichton, Matthew Reilly, and James Rollins, who also combined the religious aspects I enjoyed into his books.

I love the Pendergast series from Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child, with its crossover into occult and supernatural. Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code came out in 2003, and I jumped into that as soon as it launched. I had previously enjoyed Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose, but wanted more action and a modern take on the religious themes.

In terms of TV and movies, I loved The A Team, James Bond, Indiana Jones and all the action movies Angelina Jolie did including Lara Croft, and of course, Nicholas Cage in his action movie era — Con Air, The Rock, and Face Off. I loved Arnie in End of Days, Keanu in Constantine, both a blend of action and religious thriller.

I have a Masters degree in Theology from the University of Oxford, and although I am not a Christian, I am fascinated by religious history, relics, conspiracy, and places in Europe and the Middle East in particular that have so much rich religious culture. I’m also glad to be able to use my degree in my books since it was pretty useless when I used to implement accounts payable systems as an IT consultant!

Adventure is generally a male dominated field, and that’s part of why I wanted to write an action adventure series with a strong female protagonist.

Morgan Sierra is my alter-ego, but she has a lot more practical fighting skills. Think Angelina in Mr & Mrs Smith and Salt, or Charlize Theron in The Old Guard. Morgan is most often joined by Jake Timber, her partner at ARKANE, a secret British agency investigating supernatural mysteries around the world.

joanna penn pentecost
Back in May 2011 with Pentecost — since then I have re-edited, re-covered, re-titled, and changed my author name 🙂

I started writing the series in 2009 and Pentecost by Joanna Penn came out in 2011, which I later rewrote and rebranded to Stone of Fire in 2015. I did another rewrite in 2022.

I've written 13 ARKANE books and a short story across 13 years, during which I’ve written many other books of course, but my ARKANE adventures have to be inspired by real life, and they take a while to research and percolate before writing. They cannot be rushed! 

If you’d like to read more action adventure by indie authors, check out RD Brady, David Wood, Alan Baxter, J. Robert Kennedy, PJ Skinner, Ernest Dempsey, Nick Thacker, Avanti Centrae, and Kevin Tumlinson — and yes, several of the list are women. You can recognise us by our initials!

Right, let’s get into some tips for writing action adventure thrillers.

Tip 1: Put your characters in difficult and dangerous situations

Lee Child, author of the Jack Reacher thriller series says,

“The three essential things are: Put the characters in danger early; keep the stakes high; and make sure the danger grows throughout the novel.”

Gillian Flynn, author and screenwriter of Gone Girl, said,

“I like writing about people who are flawed and human. It’s what I enjoy reading and what I enjoy writing. Thrillers are all about how you break somebody, in the best possible way.”

In 2011, I was writing the early books in the ARKANE series. Stone of Fire was just out, or Pentecost as it was back then before the rebrand, and Crypt of Bone was almost done.

I was still wrestling with writing fight scenes, and I was also slightly worried about writing violence and hard times for my characters. It’s strange to think that now because I love writing fight scenes, and in Spear of Destiny, Morgan Sierra has a particularly good fight with a mysterious soldier in the gorgeous State Library in Vienna. That was fun to write!

Vienna State Hall Library. Photo by J.F. Penn, featured in Spear of Destiny
Vienna State Hall Library. Photo by J.F. Penn, featured in Spear of Destiny

But back then, I was still early in my career, so I interviewed David Wood, author of the Dane Maddock Adventures about writing these kinds of scenes. You can find David at DavidWoodWeb.com.

“People expect that your main character is going to make it through to the end with some scars, and so you need to create suspense as to how they're going to get there.

You need to make them care about the supporting cast and will the supporting cast survive, and also by making the challenges they face greater, you can show more parts of their abilities and their skills with those on display. This book has got more action throughout. I really wanted to develop the antagonist by making their role bigger and bringing them in from the start, I needed to bring them into conflict earlier on.

Now I don't do gratuitous, gory things. I'm not Quentin Tarantino. We don't have Kill Bill with the blood jetting out of the necks and things like that. So I try to have a purpose for it, but I think there also is an expectation in thrillers that there's going to be a body count.

I think as long as you're not a sicko person, it's pretty easy to compartmentalize and just let your imagination run wild. I know as a kid I like to read about World War II, now that I'm older and I know about war and I've known people who have been killed in it, it's not a glory thing anymore, but it's still interesting. I think, people coming into conflict on that level is fascinating.

I listened to the Hardcore History podcast, which is a favorite, and the host, Dan Carlin did an amazing series on the Punic Wars, and he did such a powerful job of describing that hand to hand, eye to eye, chopping each other apart. And it makes you realize how horrific it is. But it's also fascinating because you want, what does that feel like? How does your psyche react? How does your body react? And we wonder what we would do if we were ever faced with a life and death situation.”

Fight scenes are part of what readers expect in an action adventure thriller.

Personally, I expect a high body count in the thrillers I read. These are no cozy mystery or domestic thrillers where there might be a body or two. These have much higher stakes!

Fight scenes are also a staple of the genre, but writing a fight scene when you are not a fighter is a skill you need to learn.

I interviewed martial artist and multi-award-winning horror and thriller writer Alan Baxter back in 2011, in the early days of my ARKANE series. I asked him why readers love fight scenes, and in this clip he explains why:

“One part of it is escapism because most people have never had a fight. Generally, that's a good thing because even people that do train fighting, it's best if you don't fight. When people fight, people get hurt. Horrible things can happen. I train fighters all the time, and the thing I'm always saying is the first defence, the first block, is to run away. Never fight unless you have to.

And so by reading about these things, we get to experience those things from that third person perspective of what’s going on. And I think it’s just a natural extension of fiction.

Most stories at their core are dealing in one way or another with conflict. If it’s a love story, it’s emotional conflict or if it’s a mystery, it’s a sort of cerebral conflict or whatever. But what makes an interesting story is conflict and challenges and tests for your characters in all sorts of shapes and forms. So of course, the most distilled version of that is actual physical conflict and people literally fighting against each other in a physical sense.

And of course, when you are writing action and you want all this fast paced mayhem going on, and people running into each other and having fisticuffs and jumping in cars and having car chases and blowing things up, that’s what gets our adrenaline going.

If we were going through that, our adrenaline would be drowning us, whereas we can read about someone else going through it and we can get that sort of vicarious ride by following them without any real threat to ourselves. So I think it's just a natural extension of the general conflict in storytelling.”

In the interview, Alan gives lots of tips for writing fight scenes and you can also buy his book, Write the Fight Write: A Fiction Writer’s Resource for Creating Realistic, Convincing Fight Scenes. You can find Alan at www.alanbaxter.com.au.

Tip 2. Include a ticking clock

The ticking clock is a thriller trope. There is a deadline and a race against time which drives the pace of an adventure. Usually, the main characters have to stop the baddies from destroying the world, or save someone before it’s too late, or whatever the plot is, before the time runs out.

In Spear of Destiny, I have two ticking clocks. One is the countdown to the US election as my antagonist is military and a politician who intends to use the Spear to galvanise his campaign and summon a supernatural power to propel him to the White House.

The other ticking clock is more personal for Morgan. Her young niece, Gemma, is dying, because of a curse that should have affected Morgan. She will do anything to save Gemma and the Spear can be used for both healing and destruction. The stakes are both political on a country and global scale, but also much more personal and intimate.

Tip 3. Feature a MacGuffin

Action adventure thrillers in particular usually have a MacGuffin. It’s the thing that the characters are searching for, usually some kind of object of power, or historical importance. In Spear of Destiny, it is, you guessed it — the Spear of Destiny!

Spear of Destiny, Hofburg, Vienna. Photo by J.F. Penn
Spear of Destiny, Hofburg, Vienna. Photo by J.F. Penn

Morgan and Jake must recover the pieces from various locations around the world before the bad guys put them all together again and summon a great evil.

Your MacGuffin doesn’t have to be original. In fact, among action adventure writers, we often use the same objects because it’s so fun to write them. We often use the same places as well, but of course, we all have different characters and different adventures.

Tip 4: Research thoroughly. Details matter.

My ARKANE thrillers are mostly based on my travels, and many of my own experiences. One of the benefits of running a business as an author is that you can do tax-deductible business trips and that includes experiences for research, as long as they end up in a profitable book, of course!

Back in 2014, I interviewed multi-award-winning thriller and mystery author, David Morrell, who is most famous for his book First Blood, which became Rambo, although he has written many other books.

David has always been very generous and welcoming to indie authors, and he loves his research! Here’s an excerpt from the interview, where he talks about some particularly exciting experiences. You can find David at DavidMorrell.net.

“I did a novel called Testament, which was about a man on the run from a terrorist organization who’s forced to live in the mountains over a winter. And I heard about an organization called the National Outdoor Leadership School, which is based in Lander, Wyoming, in the United States, and basically takes groups into the mountains and teaches them how to survive up there.

And so, prior to writing Testament, I went and I lived above timberline in the Rocky Mountains for thirty days. And the graduation exercise — I remember this so vividly. There's a mantra: You can go three minutes without air, three hours without heat, three days without water, and three weeks without food.

So they took our food away and then they showed us the map, and it was on the other side of the continental divide. Three days from now, we’ll pick you up over here. So you had to know how to use a compass and a map. We kept our canteen, but we didn’t have any food and basically for three days, there were five of us in this particular group, and so we just kept going and kept going, and I lost twenty-five pounds. So I did that. That was one of an exciting thing.

I went to the Bill Scott Raceway in West Virginia where people go to learn how to drive in emergency situations, and so for five days I learned how to car fight, how to ram through barricades, and at fifty miles an hour we were doing all this stuff. And the movies have it all wrong, but it was a glorious time. I never had so much fun doing all this car fighting on this raceway. And I used that in a novel called The Protector because it occurred to me that car chases in the movies are fake and I hardly ever see them in novels. So I thought, well, why not do a car chase in a novel that’s authentic in the way a professional would really do it?

And I think the one that really transports me the most. I was doing a novel called The Shimmer, which is about mysterious lights that appear in West Texas and have been for since like 1889. And they’re real. I’ve seen them. They’re very strange. And the government or the military for a time tried to investigate them using aircraft.

And so I knew that the novel, if it was going to be realistic, would have to use aircraft. And then I thought, well, what do I know about aircraft? And I'm not gonna fake that. It's like, if you're writing about guns, it helps to go out and shoot one just so you know what it's like. And so I went, I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and I went down to the local, , airport and found a place that taught flying. So I started paying flying classes and I liked it so much, and I eventually became a private pilot. So I have my license, which has the Wright brothers on it and it’s very cool. I’ve had a lot of fun doing the research.”

Trust your writing instinct and have fun

I love that David mentions fun in that last segment, because research trips to interesting places are part of why I write my ARKANE thrillers. They give me an excuse to travel and delve into some really fascinating history and culture, and it’s one of my favourite parts of being an author.

It’s great to find author friends who enjoy the same fascinations, and I’ve interviewed multi-award-winning author Rebecca Cantrell multiple times over the years.

JFPenn and Rebecca Cantrell Berlin 2013
JFPenn and Rebecca Cantrell, Berlin, 2013

We actually first met in Berlin when I was on a research trip to visit the Ishtar Gate at the Pergamon Museum which I included in End of Days, and we have also been at Thrillerfest in New York and at a conference in Oregon together. We both have an international mindset and we always geek out about cool places we have traveled to and written about.

In terms of action adventure, Rebecca has the award-winning Joe Tesla series of thrillers which begins with The World Beneath. I also particularly love her supernatural thrillers, co-written with James Rollins, which start with The Blood Gospel.

This is an excerpt from an interview in 2016 about writing award-winning books where Rebecca talks about trusting your instinct when you feel something about a place, and the importance of having fun. 

“For the Joe Tesla stuff, which is set in the subway under New York, there’s a lot of urban explorers who go down there with cameras and they just film themselves walking through the tunnels and what’s going on. And so you get to see all these hidden places and even ten years ago, unless you happened to be in New York, you’d never ever see that material.

There’s so many places that seem kind of magical, where you go there and just like, ‘Ooh, this place has some kind of energy or some kind of story inherent in it.’ And I think that writers pick up on that and you’re like, okay, there’s something about this moment and this place that strikes you, and it strikes every writer differently, but I think there are certain places that just resonate a lot.

I think that you need to trust your instinct and then really do the research and immerse yourself in it. It’s okay to have fun. It’s okay to go someplace that you think is fascinating and wander around and sit in.

Like I had a book that I was going to set in Venice and I happened to be in Venice and I didn’t write that book until years later, but I sat in a cafe in Venice on St. Mark Square, and I drank hot chocolate in this little cafe that had been around since the 1700s, and it was real chocolate that they melted in the milk. And that feels completely indulgent because it was nothing but fun. It was fantastic hot chocolate and the setting was gorgeous, and you know, you can’t take a bad picture of Venice.

I’m not sure you can sit anywhere in Venice that isn’t just beautiful, but as a writer, it’s okay to have fun. It’s okay to enjoy those moments, and it’s okay to really indulge your senses because that’s where the gold is. Those specific moments that you love and you connect with will connect with the readers, and that took me a long time to really believe.

And I think I was working with James Rollins on something and I was like, so I think this, but is that dumb? And he is like, no, I found that if I think it’s cool, other people think it’s cool. And I think that’s true trust. Trust the readers and trust yourself. Have fun. If you have fun, it’ll show.”

Tip 5: Help your readers escape into an exciting setting

Action adventure thrillers are about escaping your current situation and delving into a fast-paced adventure for a time. Setting is a huge part of that and action adventure is usually about a realistic present day setting used as part of the plot, although there are also adventure categories under Fantasy as well, and my Mapwalker thrillers fit there.

My ARKANE thrillers are all modern day, real-world settings. Spear of Destiny opens in Vienna, and also has scenes in Nuremberg, Oxford, and Washington, D.C.

Nick Thacker also writes similar adventures in his Harvey Bennett series and other books. I interviewed Nick about writing action adventure in 2020, and here’s an excerpt about escape and setting.

“People go to these types of books and movies for the ability to not quite go to a completely fantastical world, that this isn’t fantasy adventure, but to go into a different place of the world that they know. And it just seems like a lot of readers are going to our work because they want to escape to another place that they may not have been or somewhere that they’ve been, but have not discovered enough.

But it’s those little details that I think really capture the realism of a setting. We’re writing fiction obviously, but since it is set in a world that people know, it’s important to get that stuff right.

When I started writing this stuff and really nailed down my brand, what I wanted to do, I have what I call a formula, and I’m putting finger quotes because I know formula is a bad word to a lot of writers. But my formula, if you will, is essentially taking some prototypical technology and giving it to a really bad person or organization and then dropping the whole thing into an exotic location, and the good guys have to go find the bad guys.

I mean, all of my books are essentially that, and I try to put in the history, some of the cyber tech thriller type stuff, the elements of those books that I know like Dan Brown’s and Clive Cussler, James Rollins. And so it’s that combination of it all, but the setting is really key. I try to put the book somewhere that I’ve never been or that I would want to go, that I think my readers would also enjoy experiencing.”

To go deeper into place and my fascination with cathedrals, as well as thrillers, I also loved Sanctus by Simon Toyne when it was published in 2011, the same year Stone of Fire came out. I love strong settings, and Simon’s city of Ruin fascinated me.

Peter James, Simon Toyne and J.F.Penn
Simon Toyne, J.F.Penn and Peter James, Thrillerfest 2015

In this excerpt from our interview in 2014, Simon talks about how he found inspiration for Ruin after arriving in France after a stormy crossing from England across the channel.

“We drove an hour inland, and an hour inland from Dieppe is Rouen and the storm had blown out and dawn was starting to lighten the sky. And I saw the silhouette of Rouen Cathedral up on the hill, and it’s a very weird cathedral Rouen cathedral. It’s got this kind of like hypodermic syringe of a needle of a spire. It pierces the sky and these kind of bits, it's very gothic and weird. It's almost like a spider. It’s a strange thing.

And when I saw it, this quote just popped into my head that I'd read years ago and always liked. And kind of carried around with me in, in that sort of way, like picking up a shiny thing and putting it in your pocket.

And the quote is the one that's the beginning of Sanctus, which is the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, “A man is a God in ruins,” and there was something about that quote. The image of the cathedral and the play on words of Rouen ruin that just planted the seed.”

Tip 6. Use quotes for inspiration but be careful with attribution

It’s also a common practice amongst thriller writers to include quotes at the beginning of novels as Simon did there, ‘A man is a god in ruins.’

Many of my ARKANE thrillers include biblical quotes since the series is often about a religious conspiracy of some kind. Spear of Destiny has an extended quote from the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus:

“The soldiers put on him a crown of thorns and he was scourged and received condemnation from Pilate, and he was crucified at the place of a skull and two thieves with him, and they gave him vinegar to drink with gall, and Longinus the soldier pierced his side with a spear.”

But there was also a quote I found that became quite pivotal in the story,

“He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world.”

This is a quote from Magic: History, Theory and Practice by Ernst Schertel, and it was underlined in Hitler’s personal copy of the book. Adolf Hitler was of course an Austrian, and although he was rejected from the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna in the early 1900s, he remained in the city painting and selling his work. While he was there, he studied the Holy Lance, the Spear of Destiny, and learned about the occult, which is all woven into the history behind the relic and the modern day thriller.

research for spear of destiny photo by jfpenn
My reading pile for researching Spear of Destiny

As a practical note, whenever I find quotes, I note them down in my journal — always in quotation marks with the source, and I also put them in my Things app (or you can use whatever software you find helpful). I review these lists for inspiration at different times, and move them into the Scrivener project per book when it becomes time to write.

Always note your sources! If I use a direct quote in the text, I will have a character weave in the source, and I also include an Author’s Note in all my books expanding on my research with an explanation and a bibliography.

If you’re concerned about accidental plagiarism or copyright violations by inadvertently forgetting to cite your sources, have a listen to the interview I did with Vikki Carter, The Author’s Librarian back in 2021, where we discuss research techniques, proper ways to use citations, and more.

Tip 7. Write a series

Action adventure readers love a long-running series, so plan for that by making sure you have an episodic structure for the book, and a team for the protagonist to work alongside.

My ARKANE series has 13 books — Spear of Destiny is lucky book 13.

ARKANE action adventure thriller series by J.F. Penn
ARKANE action adventure thriller series by J.F. Penn

Each book can be read as a stand-alone, which is also a common aspect of action adventure thrillers.

My main character Morgan Sierra joins the ARKANE secret British government agency and mainly works alongside Jake Timber, another agent, but various books feature other characters.

Martin Klein, my super geek character modelled on Q from Bond, is popular and even has a stand-alone story, Soldiers of God where he is the protagonist, so you can expand your series into extra material based on secondary and side characters.

In 2021, I interviewed Sara Rosett about writing a series. Sara writes cozy mystery and historical mystery, and she has a book, How to Write a Series, that might be useful whatever genre you write. In this clip, she talks about reasons why writing a series is such a good idea.

“Readers love a series. If you can get your readers hooked in on book one, then book two and three on down the road is an easier sell perhaps than a standalone because your readers are familiar with the characters in the world. If they enjoy the experience, they want to return to that same world again.

Then there’s some financial stability with writing a series. If you know that book one made a certain amount of money, then maybe book two and three may not be that exact amount, but you can predict a little bit.

And not always, but sometimes, writing a familiar series and characters can be a little bit easier and it can go faster because you already know the world. You're not world-building with each book.

Then, there’s marketing reasons for promotion that make a series a good thing to have. You can save time, you can focus on book one in your marketing, and then you're not trying to run ads to all the books in your catalog, you can focus on one and hopefully as readers come into that book one, if they like it, they’ll continue on.”

If you enjoy action adventure thrillers, you might enjoy Spear of Destiny!

Available now in all the usual editions plus a special hardback, silver foil, signed edition with an exclusive cover. There’s also a webinar on discovery writing if you’d like to join me for that, and I won’t be selling the replay, so that is also exclusive to the Kickstarter. Check it out at www.jfpenn.com/destiny

A cursed bloodline. An ancient weapon. The fate of the world hangs in the balance.

When a mysterious relic is stolen from a museum in Vienna, ARKANE agents Morgan Sierra and Jake Timber embark on a deadly race against time to recover the legendary Spear of Destiny — the holy lance that pierced the side of Christ.

As they follow clues through Nazi ruins, Tibetan temples, and Washington, DC’s greatest monuments, they uncover a sinister plot that threatens to unleash an unstoppable darkness upon the world.

But Morgan also carries a curse in her veins, a shadow placed upon her that now threatens her niece’s life. To save her, Morgan must find the Spear and unlock its fabled healing powers. Standing in her way is the fanatical Jericho Command and their elite leader, Gabriel, a man both blessed and burdened by strange powers and a mysterious past.

From the ashes of World War II to the mystical peaks of Tibet, from ancient crypts to the hallowed halls of the Library of Congress and the Capitol, Morgan and Jake must brave every danger, solve each puzzle, and face down enemies both human and demonic in their quest to find the Spear before its terrible power is unleashed.

Time is running out and the fate of the world hangs in the balance — will Morgan and Jake prevail or will the forces of darkness triumph?

From New York Times and USA Today bestselling author J.F. Penn comes a gripping and explosive thriller that delves deep into the heart of an ancient mystery and a chilling supernatural evil. An unputdownable story of supernatural suspense, Spear of Destiny is a rollercoaster ride into the dark legends of the past and the shocking evils of the present, with only a cursed relic lying between salvation and damnation.

Spear of Destiny is book 13 in the ARKANE action adventure thriller series. It can be read or listened to as a stand-alone story even if you have never read another in the series. There are also binge-worthy bundles available in the Add-Ons so you can read or listen in order if you prefer.

Check it out now at: www.jfpenn.com/destiny and the link will redirect after the Kickstarter is finished. The book will be out in the usual formats in September 2024.

The post 7 Tips For Writing Action Adventure Thrillers With J.F. Penn first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
What are the tropes of action adventure thrillers? How can you please readers and sell more books? J.F. Penn shares her own tips and also features excerpts from interviews with other thriller writers. J.F. Penn is the award-winning, What are the tropes of action adventure thrillers? How can you please readers and sell more books? J.F. Penn shares her own tips and also features excerpts from interviews with other thriller writers.







J.F. Penn is the award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of the ARKANE action-adventure thrillers, the Mapwalker fantasy adventures, and the Brooke & Daniel crime thrillers, as well as horror, travel memoir, and short stories.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Put your characters in difficult and dangerous situations



* Writing fight scenes



* Include a ticking clock and high stakes



* What is a MacGuffin and how is it used?



* Research into places and experiences



* Trust your writing instinct and have fun!



* Help your readers escape to exciting places



* Using quotes, and source citation



* Write a series




If you love action adventure thrillers, check out the ARKANE series by J.F. Penn. Spear of Destiny, book 13, is out now on Kickstarter with special edition signed exclusive cover hardbacks, plus paperback, large print, ebook, audiobook, and bundle deals in all formats.






You can find J.F. Penn at www.jfpenn.com, buy books direct at www.JFPennBooks.com, and read the blog or listen to the Books and Travel Podcast at BooksAndTravel.page.



7 Tips for Writing Action Adventure Thrillers with J.F. Penn



I’m an action adventure thriller fan from way back, but what are the hallmarks of the action adventure genre?



Clive Cussler said,




“Adventure is just putting characters in settings and locales that are unfamiliar to the reader and then as the writer, having fun with what happens.”




I’ve always loved adventure stories. As a child I read The Hardy Boys, and King Solomon’s Mines, and I remember the Choose Your Own Adventure books where you would flick to a new page as you made your choice of action.



I loved Clive Cussler’s Dirk Pitt series and read a lot of marine biology books, as I thought I might be able to join NUMA or something like it. I was able to meet Clive before he died at Thrillerfest in New York in 2015 and have a selfie which really made my trip.



J.F. Penn and Clive Cussler (Thrillerfest, 2015)


I discovered Wilbur Smith’s African and ancient Egyptian adventures, then Michael Crichton, Matthew Reilly, and James Rollins, who also combined the religious aspects I enjoyed into his books.



I love the Pendergast series from Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child, with its crossover into occult and supernatural. Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code came out in 2003, and I jumped into that as soon as it launched. I had previously enjoyed Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 35:06
The Seasons Of Writing With Jacqueline Suskin https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/03/the-seasons-of-writing-with-jacqueline-suskin/ Mon, 03 Jun 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36293 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/03/the-seasons-of-writing-with-jacqueline-suskin/#comments https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/03/the-seasons-of-writing-with-jacqueline-suskin/feed/ 2 <p>How can you adopt the seasons of nature in your writing? How can you allow periods of rest as well as abundance? Jacqueline Suskin explores these ideas and more in this interview. In the intro, thoughts on children's book publishing [Always Take Notes Podcast]; how to market a memoir as an indie author [ALLi]; A […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/06/03/the-seasons-of-writing-with-jacqueline-suskin/">The Seasons Of Writing With Jacqueline Suskin</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you adopt the seasons of nature in your writing? How can you allow periods of rest as well as abundance? Jacqueline Suskin explores these ideas and more in this interview.

In the intro, thoughts on children's book publishing [Always Take Notes Podcast]; how to market a memoir as an indie author [ALLi]; A desperate quest. A holy relic. A race against time. Spear of Destiny is live on Kickstarter!; What is Kickstarter and why am I launching there?, I'm on the Wordslinger Podcast talking about marketing later books in a series.

Book cover designer Stuart Bache on AI for book covers [Brave New Bookshelf]; OpenAI signs licensing deals with The Atlantic, Vox Media, and NewsCorp [OpenAI]

draft2digital

Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Jacqueline Suskin is a poet, author, speaker, and creative consultant. Her latest book is A Year In Practice: Seasonal Rituals And Prompts To Awaken Cycles Of Creative Expression.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Writing a poem quickly, live and in person, or order
  • Choosing the poems that go into a collection and knowing when it's finished
  • The physical beauty of layout on the page
  • Embracing the seasons of life and creativity
  • Trust emergence
  • Choosing the “easeful” path for your next project
  • Celebrating our creative accomplishments while continuing our journey
  • Practices to help us slow down
  • ‘The veil is thin' and how it manifests in our work

You can find Jacqueline at JacquelineSuskin.com.

Transcript of Interview with Jacqueline Suskin

Joanna: Jacqueline Suskin is a poet, author, speaker, and creative consultant. Her latest book is A Year In Practice: Seasonal Rituals And Prompts To Awaken Cycles Of Creative Expression. So welcome to the show, Jacqueline.

Jacqueline: Thanks so much for having me.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you today. First up, just—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing poetry and books.

Jacqueline: I've been writing ever since I was a little kid. I feel like I'm one of those people who just sort of knew at a young age that words were the world I wanted to live in.

I didn't really know what that meant for a long time. I didn't know I was writing poems. Then the older I got, the more I was familiarized with that world, and I thought, oh, I've just always been a poet. So I ended up going to university to study poetry, and getting a degree in poetry, and then just continued to follow that.

It's really led me to some pretty incredible places, including this project that I've done for a long time called Poem Store, where for about 12 years, my only job was to take my typewriter around to public places and write poems for people on the spot.

So I really got this sort of direct connection with the way that everyday people connect with poetry. That has definitely illuminated my path as a writer.

Joanna: That is so crazy. I mean, what possessed you to do that? How did you make that a living? I mean, I have seen some people do that. As an introvert who just doesn't really want to speak to people in general, I just find that utterly terrifying.

Tell us a bit more about Poem Store.

Jacqueline: I mean, honestly, it happened by chance. I just met someone in Oakland who was doing that, and he found out I was a poet, and he invited me to come try it with him.

I had just purchased a typewriter, which was so strange, everything kind of aligned magically like that. That was in 2009. I did that as an experiment just to see if I could, and then I just realized almost immediately how special it was.

It was the perfect combination of my two skills. One is writing and the other is to connect deeply with people. So I just let myself follow it and see how far I could take it. I had no idea it would become my full-time job.

That was very clear, after about a year of doing it at farmer's markets and just kind of continuing the experiment, I was like, I think this is more than an experiment, I think this is something I should probably really give myself over to. Once I did that, it definitely took root and grew into a huge project.

I've written over 40,000 poems with Poem Store. I don't really do it in public anymore because I just kind of got burnt out.

It was a very young person's world to do that in. I had a lot of energy then, and now I'm a little older, and I feel a little more protective of my energy.

In the midst of all of that, that's how I got books published, that's how I met people. It was a really connective way to be part of the community and bring poetry to all types of different people.

Joanna: Wow, 40,000 poems. That's kind of incredible. On that, I mean, this is a very interesting thing, and I think goes to the heart of creativity.

I do know quite a lot of poets, and some poets insist that it takes a very, very long time to be happy with a poem and put it out in the world. You were basically doing a connection, and then a fast creative publishing type process.

How do you connect so deeply and so quickly, and then turn that into creativity in a finished product in a short amount of time? I know you're not doing that anymore, but—

How did you change that mindset of “it must take forever to do a poem” to going so quickly?

Jacqueline: Well, I like to hold both sides of it. I still, even throughout that whole process, wrote books. Those poems did take a lot of time, and craft, and working with an editor.

The painstaking, beautiful longevity of a single poem being on the editing board is something I'm still really familiar with and love a lot. Then I also think there's this freedom in just being able to have this poetic conversation with another person, which is basically what I was doing with Poem Store.

These poems that I would make in the moment, they're very spontaneous. so they're including that person's energy, and there's also a mystery there. Like I wasn't quite sure what I was going to write, and I didn't really know what I did write until I would read them the poem when I was finished.

Just yesterday, I work in a lot of schools now and just visit kids and show them what it's like to be a poet, teach them about poetry, and I brought my typewriter to class yesterday.

There's something really magical that happens when someone has a typewriter, and I think that that was also a big part of it.

There was like this deep lore of how is this person being so vulnerable out here in the world writing poetry, but then also, wow, this machine from the past, this is sort of like a time travel opportunity.

Joanna: I imagine some of those kids have never even seen a typewriter.

Jacqueline: Yes, and there's something about allowing oneself to be free creatively like that. Like those poems had nothing to do with my ego, right? Like, I'll never see them again. I didn't keep copies of them. Every once in a while, I would take photographs of ones that I really loved or something like that.

There was something so special about releasing that sense of control, and the need for perfection, and the need for such a clear certain outcome, that I think is actually really nice to apply to art making.

Although I really do value the craft and the focus and will continue to write books in that way for the rest of my life, I also will always allow myself to slip into that more improvisational sense of writing.

I mean, honestly, even just yesterday, it was a reminder that my imagination is this thing that's always growing and changing, and there's new language to uncover. It feels like a challenge in a playful way.I like, especially as being someone who is a writer for my profession, making any kind of outlet I can for that playfulness in my work.

Joanna: I love that. Well, let's talk about the books of poetry, the collections. I'm also fascinated with this, in that you have to choose poems to go into a collection, which are usually themed in some way. I own quite a lot of these collections of poems.

How do you choose the poems that go into a collection? How do you know when it's finished?

As in, okay, I am happy that this represents whatever that particular point in time is. It seems like quite a nebulous process.

Jacqueline: The choosing is really a fun process. I think, for me, what will happen when I know a book is coming into focus, is I will spend my time reviewing what I've been writing over the last year or two years in my journals, and I'll see a pattern or a theme.

For example, I made a trilogy of books about my time living in California, and each book in the trilogy is about a certain place that I lived.

What allowed me to choose those poems was that I saw this beautiful kind of exploration of place, and I thought, “Oh, I have an entire books worth of poems about my time living in Northern California. Oh, I have an entire books worth of poems about my time living in Los Angeles, and then another for Joshua Tree.”

I could see this theme. So then I went back in and added to it.

I thought about my core memories of those places and patched in what I thought was missing.

With all my books, it's been a similar process of sort of noticing that either there's a theme building up, or there's a collection of poems that are based on place or a certain time in my life. So that's kind of how the choosing happens with this reflection process.

Then there's how to know when a poem is done. I work a lot with clients one-on-one who are trying to create books or trying to polish their poetry.

I always say, you really do need to work with someone else at some point in the process, so that they can say to you, “Yes, this makes sense. This is clear. This is getting across the point you're trying to get across.”

You need to have that reflection of another reader, someone else's eyes on it, to give you the sense of closure that you might need.

Not every poem is like that. Some poems, randomly you'll write something that's just like, “Pow! That is done. That is good. I love it. That's very clear,” but I think that's very rare.

Joanna: I love that. So I also wonder about your poetry, and in fact, your books in general, because you have poems in this book A Year In Practice. I tend to read poetry from a physical book, sometimes I'll get an audio or maybe watch a video of a poet performing, but I'm one of those people who appreciates the physical layout of a poem.

That's often a place where people play with physical layout and the beauty of words on a page, as opposed to the beauty of the words. Do you know what I mean?

How do you incorporate physical beauty in the layout words on the page, or is that less important to you than just the words?

Jacqueline: I do love that. I love when people appreciate that because that is a big part of the craft. Deciding where to break a line, deciding what space goes between which stanza. I think for my work, a lot of times I'll be creating something that the line breaks are giving the pause and the cadence to the poem.

So I'm a huge fan of reading poetry aloud. Like every time I read a book of poems, I will read the poems out loud because I feel like there's a lyrical song-like quality to poetry, there's a rhythm.

The lines, and the way they break, and the way that the words appear on the page offer that. There's spaciousness around certain words.

I think for my work with the typewritten poems, then there's another quality of this kind of tactile, visual expression with the mistakes that I leave in, or just when the typewriter skips a beat, or when I go over a spelling mistake with just a few Xs, because on my typewriter, there's no way to backspace or amend mistakes.

I think that things like that give a different life to poems. Especially, if a poem is just a block on the page as like a narrative or prose narrative—which I do write poems like that a lot—I think it's definitely still an invitation to kind of slow down.

I think that's the difference a lot of times between just straight up prose or narrative fiction or something, is that you get this chance to have space around the words that are usually delivering something very, very macro, very large, as a condensed space, and as few words as possible, honestly.

Joanna: Let's get into A Year In Practice. It's a great book, I really enjoyed it. Of course, people can listen to this whenever because it does have all the seasons in it.

How should we consider the seasons as they relate to a calendar year, specific writing projects, and also times in our lives?

How might they overlay each other?

Jacqueline: When I was creating this book, I looked to the earth for many things. A lot of my life revolves around my connection with the planet. Especially as a creative person, as a writer, as a professional artist, I feel like a lot of times what I'm searching for, what I'm honing in on, is some sort of a methodology that allows me to have a consistent routine.

That changes throughout the seasons of my life, depending on what's happening in my life, what other work I'm doing, where I live, what personal things are happening in my world.

This project started many years ago when I lived in Los Angeles, and in Los Angeles the seasons are very subtle. You have to really be paying close attention to understand that there even are seasons, and what they're telling you is even more subtle.

So I think for a poet, that's actually an incredible invitation because I think subtlety is something that I love to lean into and kind of see what is really under the current of this. What small hints and arrows am I missing if I just kind of rushed through this? Subtlety asks you to look closer and slow down.

So I really learned about the seasons in a new way when I was living in Los Angeles, and this book kind of came out of that. I was like, okay, in the winter, I need to give myself some kind of space to slow down and turn inward a little bit.

Even if you're living somewhere where there isn't snow, or there isn't actual cold weather to deal with that kind of forces you to be in hermit mode, you need to give yourself that because your human body kind of requires that.

There's not a lot of space for that in our society. I did an interview with someone once about the book, and they were like—

“Basically, your book is suggesting that we rest a lot.”

I think that's a big part of the creative practice that can easily get overlooked because we're really concerned with product and outcome. It does feel really good to finish something or to fully indulge in creativity and let yourself be really fervent with whatever your ideas are.

I also think that noticing the season at hand and reeling it in for winter allows you to then move into spring where there is this charge, and there is a charge of energy that you can carefully and slowly approach so that you don't get burned out.

Then you go into summertime, and that's a major time of togetherness. Like that's when we're together, when we're sharing our work, when we're taking in work, but in a group. I imagine always in the summer, it's like when you're allowed to fully be out.

You're not having one foot in the door and one foot out, like you might be in spring. That care then kind of translates into the fall where you start harvesting and gathering again for your winter introversion or for your winter seclusion period. So there's a lot of energy in fall for noting:

What will I need in my creative cave? What can I do for myself now? What can I finish now before I kind of start to turn off a little?

So I love winter, and I feel that winter is a really appropriate time for creative gestation. Then the seasons that follow, there's a lot of choice that's involved.

You made these choices to turn inward and to focus and to kind of calm and take your foot off the pedal a little bit, but then when you come back into action in spring, it isn't like you just then slam on the gas. The truth is, is that winter kind of starts and stops for a long time, and spring is very moody. That really affects our creative practice. It really affects our ability to show up for our ideas that maybe we've been brewing during the wintertime.

Joanna: In the bigger level, I was thinking as I was reading the book, there are different phases of our life. So you mentioned that your Poem Store, you're not doing that anymore, that was like a phase of life that you have now moved on from.

We all have the seasons, that sort of macro level. So for me, for example, the perimenopause years were like a winter, in that I really struggled to do a lot. I needed, or I should have, given myself more grace and more time, but it really felt like a winter.

I've come through that now, and I feel like I'm really in a spring, like a reinvention. That's sort of a number of years over different parts of our lives that sort of mirror, I guess do you find that they do mirror the annual sense?

Jacqueline: Yes, and I really like considering the seasons of our lives. I think the main thesis for this book is just:

How can we remember what the energetic quality of this season is and then apply that during our life whenever we need it?

So sometimes we need a winter, we need to go inward, we need to rest and recuperate. That might happen in the middle of summer. I think it's more of learning this gift of this language that the seasons offer.

The earth is just saying like, “Here, this is what all the other animals and all the other plants are doing right now. You're a part of that, maybe you could consider doing that also.”

Then thinking how that applies to the greater practice of just living and kind of knowing, okay, I've memorized what goes on during this time of year for myself, or I've memorized what it feels like to sort of downshift. How do I apply that?

I've done the work of memorizing it, so it's almost like now I can flip the switch. I can make the choice and say that's the energy I need right now. That doesn't really happen unless we give ourselves over to learning it and practicing it.

That's, I think, why I wanted to have the word “practice” in the title of the book, and to consider practice not just being creative practice and artistic practice, but truly the practice of living and engaging with life in a healthy and beneficial way that might be forgotten very easily, because there's so many things in our daily lives that steer us away from that.

Joanna: So as we're recording this, we're coming into spring. I was telling you before we started recording that the sun is out here in the UK, and it feels like, yay, spring has finally arrived.

I love in the book, you have this poem called “Emergence,” and I actually have on my wall, I have a little card that says, “Trust emergence,” which I feel reminds me that something will emerge. Even if the garden has been bare in the winter, something will start to sprout. So can you talk a bit about that?

Why does the word “emergence” call to you?

How can people understand that that will happen? I think it's really hard, hence why I've got it on my wall to remind myself.

Jacqueline: I think this really does just circle around the theme and the thesis of the book of this remembering, even this concept of emergence and that something will emerge, something new will happen.

How incredible is it to see the flowers and the perennials all pop out of the ground every year? It's never something that I'm not in awe of. It always almost shocks me.

I think there's something in that that's change is the written law of the universe. It will always be happening.

We will always be shifting and growing and changing, something different will always emerge. That's the nature of life.

We forget that. We get stuck in these feelings that nothing will change, that things are the way they are. I think that that's partially just what it is to be human. I think we get caught in our minds. We get caught in a feeling. We get caught in our bodies.

We forget that, yes, like something new will come, and that as it does emerge, the way we respond to it, the way we notice it, the way we meet it, and what we do with it, and the pace that we do all of that with it, really matters.

So I think, again, that memorizing. Well, how do you approach emergence? How do you keep yourself in line with the fact that that will come? What will you do before it does?

I love using the metaphor of the plant world because I think that the plant world is so reliable in this way, where if something emerges too soon from its cave of growth, from its safe underworld below the soil, it might get killed in the frost.

That's what happens every spring, there are these frosts that happen, where winter kind of makes its last stand. If we're not careful, coming out into the world after our moments of inward retreat, we could have that experience as well. We could get a little burned. We could get burnt out.

Some idea that we bring to the surface too soon before we're really ready could then get kind of snuffed out a little bit by the fervent energy of spring, and then things get lost. I think that's kind of what I think of when I think of emergence.

Joanna: You mentioned fervent energy there, which I love, because I feel that is the energy right now as we're talking. Everything's growing, and it's a bit mad out in the flowerbeds.

This is a problem that authors have is that often there are so many ideas. There are some people who struggle to find ideas, but many of us, I'm sure you included, have so many ideas. I don't know which one to focus on. I wondered, since you do so many different creative things, how do you know—

When all these things are springing up and emerging, how do you choose your next project?

Whether it's a collection of poems, or a full-length book, or all the other things you do?

Jacqueline: I'll try to stay in the logical realm with this because, for the most part, I actually think that that's a very intuitive experience. When I choose a project, it's usually because some kind of door opens. There is some pathway that is easeful, and I noticed that.

I think logically and practically what that looks like usually is like, okay, I'm feeling my way into a new project, there's probably a few at once that I've been thinking of, and all winter I've been brewing these ideas.

Then something will happen where I'll say, oh, okay, this is the easy way forward with this, and it's inspiring to me, and it's easeful. So that's the thing I follow. Then sometimes that peters out, and then I turned to the next thing.

So I think having your clear ideas of: what are the things that would make you feel great? What are the things that would inspire you? What are the things that you feel energetically pulled to do? Then also, what ease comes with those things?

Like if you choose a project, and then suddenly the next day, you notice that there's a grant proposal that just opened up that's in the same vein as that project, to me, that's a practical sign to try and put my effort in that direction.

I think following those practical signs is also very much like what the Earth does. When a plant is growing up and out of the soil, it's like, I'm going to lean toward the sun, and I'm going to make this easier on myself. I'm not going to grow in a direction that would make my growing harder. So I think that that's how I focus on things like that.

I let myself intuitively move towards what's easeful.

It's hard enough in the world to make a living in any way, so I think that if your artistic practice is your daily job, then there's a lot that rides on the ease of what you choose.

Joanna: That's interesting. I'm also intuitive. We actually talk about intuition quite a lot on this show, so I'm glad you said that. I do feel when I want to tackle a project, like this is ready now, it does emerge. It comes out. Some books, like one I'm writing at the moment, it's been years in germination—since we're staying with that metaphor.

Let's come on to summer because you use the word “celebration” in the summer section. This is something I, and many authors, struggle with. In fact, someone asked me the other day in an interview, “What's the favorite book you've written?” I was like, “The next book. It's always the next book.” So I wondered, what do you feel about this?

How do we celebrate what we have done, our past, as well as just moving onto the next thing?

Jacqueline: I think that's really interesting. I love the books that I've written.

I feel that there are some books that I've written because they were more of like a prompt. They were more of something that was almost like requested of me, either to continue my career moving forward or just to get something out of my brain that I knew was almost like taking up space.

I think that I don't judge the reasons why I make things, as opposed to just looking back and being like, “This is a good book.” I still feel that way, and I actually feel that way about all of my work.

That doesn't mean I don't have a favorite, but I do feel this sense of letting myself just enjoy the successes I've had, and the fact that I've written eight books and created over 40,000 poems in the world.

I love to feel that actually anything that comes after all of that is just like a cherry on top. I've already done all of this work that I'm really proud of. I kind of let myself live in that way, instead of feeling this push and rush to be more or make more.

I haven't written a bestselling book, but that doesn't make me feel badly about myself. It's more like, well, but I have written eight really great books that I am proud of. So there's something about this comparison that can happen in the world of artistry that I try to steer away from, and just sort of look at the facts.

I actually have in my book Every Day Is a Poem, which is all about cultivating a poetic mindset and the practice of poetry, I talk a lot about reflecting on one's life, and thinking of all of the skills that we have, and all of the things that we have done, and all of our accomplishments, but on a really simple level.

I love to consider all of the experiences that I've had, all the places I've gone, the friendships that I've nurtured, just the simplicity of being like, well, you know, I've enjoyed cutting a cold apple on a really hot day with a beautiful sharp knife. That feels like an accomplishment to me.

So if I'm reflecting, I'm just like, wow, I've done a lot. I've experienced a lot in this life. Instead of thinking that that's exceptional or special, I think that every human could do that. It's just about reframing the way you see your life.

Joanna: I think I always just feel like I have so many ideas and so many books I want to write. It's like once one is done and out in the world, and I've released it, and now it kind of belongs to everyone else, I'm just excited about the next one.

I think I struggle, like many people, with the idea of rest. There's always more to create.

Jacqueline: Yes, and I mean, I feel that way too. I have many projects that I'd like to complete in my lifetime. I think there's something to be said about—and this has definitely helped me—about just practicing patience with all of that.

I've had periods in my life where I have had a book come out every single year. Now for the past few years, that's been a little different.

I think at first, even like downshifting from my experience with Poem Store, which was just constant output, constantly creating and seeing this completed poem go off into the hands of a stranger over and over again, it really sped things up for me.

I think over the last few years, I've been practicing just slowness.

I have the word “SLOW” written in huge letters right above my desk, just reminding me that great masterpieces take a really long time, sometimes a lifetime.

I think the Earth really shows us that also. A Year In Practice is kind of revolving around that same idea of your whole life, and all of the seasons of your life, and what you create, it's all adding up to be this great masterpiece.

It's not just like a book that's published in your hand. It's also just like every moment by the end of your life adds up to be this really incredible artwork. Especially if you approach it that way, especially if you try to practice living your life artfully, then I don't think there really are mistakes to be made.

Joanna: Just coming back to that word “slow” because it's so interesting that you have that. I mean, I've got loads of things written next to my desk on all my little bits of papers and quotes and things. I do not have slow.

I do have, “Create a body of work I'm proud of,” which I think that resonates with what you're saying.

What are some practices that can help us slow down? Particularly in this world, a lot of authors now, we have to be on social media, we have to do things to keep our profile up so that people can find our books because it's pretty noisy out there.

What are your suggestions for slowing down?

Jacqueline: I think there's something in the creative practice that tells me, don't grasp, don't rush. So if I'm working on something, even just a single poem, if I'm working on anything creative, I will check in with myself and be like, am I rushing? Am I grasping at something here?

Or does this feel playful? Does this feel like I'm tending to a deeper emotion? That doesn't mean I won't end up writing really quickly on the page some great burst of inspiration, it just sort of allows me to review where I'm at internally.

I do think that that's probably my greatest advice is just that rushing through anything, it can easily feel like, oh, I'm just following the blaze of inspiration. If you look closer sometimes, if you just review the feeling, you might be like, oh, actually, no, I'm just trying to push through towards an outcome.

I don't think creativity really likes that. I think our imaginations are running rampant all the time, and if we slow down to tap into them, there's a lot there, but I don't think it requires us to be on the same pace as it.

We can grab maybe one piece of that, and then slowly nurture it and take our time with it. As opposed to feeling this sense of, I've got to rush and collect every little idea or image or concept that I have.

I think I heard an interview once with Tom Waits, where he was talking about where he was driving in the car. He would always think the muse is coming to him in these moments where he's like on the highway in his car, and he'd say, “Muse, don't come to me now, I'd have to pull over on the side of the road.”

There's something about that—I might be misquoting it—but there was something about that that really struck me when I was younger. Number one, if I have an idea in the middle of the night, I'm going to turn the light on and write it down in my notebook.

Then I think over the last couple years of practicing slowness, I've thought a lot about just letting poems kind of pass through me and not feeling so pressed to document everything.

That has actually released me from that feeling of pressure. You can have a really brilliant idea, and it can just be a brilliant idea that kind of moves through your body. That's it, and that's how it lives in the world, and it doesn't become something. There's a great freedom in accepting that, I think.

Joanna: In social media there's this sort of thing, if you don't take a picture of it and post it, it doesn't exist, it didn't happen. It's similar. We don't need to share everything. Not everything needs to be documented. So I like that kind of letting go.

Let's come to autumn. In the book, it's so interesting, you do use this phrase, “when the veil is thin.” I use that phrase pretty much in all my novels, in my memoir, as I feel this in certain places, and certain times, spiritual places, different times of year.

What do you mean by the veil being thin? How does it manifest in your work?

Jacqueline: Well, I think specifically in autumn, there's a sensation of being very close to death, because everything is losing its vibrance. All of the green is gone, the leaves are falling, everything is starting to go to sleep. So beyond the veil is winter, is the period of rest, is like the inner cave.

I think that when we're kind of hovering before going fully in there, there might be this opportunity to receive some information.

So I think receiving information in these moments where we feel close to death, or close to our hibernation mode, that maybe our minds are a little bit slower, maybe we're just starting to slow down, and so we're able to receive something on a different level than just this daily grind of like mental reception.

It's actually like, oh, maybe there's something that's a little bit quieter that's talking to you that wants to share information with you. I'm speaking of that in a planetary sense.

Though I also think as the Earth is calming and turning down, and maybe there's a lot of gathering happening, like if you think of all the squirrels preparing for winter, and they're doing this great method of gathering all their food and preparing, there's a sense of us doing that also.

I think as artists, and just as people, we're preparing for this inward turn that comes with that time of year. If we allow ourselves to look at that, there might be this great information download that happens then.

I think when I'm thinking of the veil being thin, I'm thinking of that quietness and that chance for this sort of exploration of something a little more spiritual or unseen that we don't necessarily have time for or that we overlook in other moments of the year.

Joanna: Have you experienced that in any particular places?

Jacqueline: Yes. As I said, I'm an ecstatic Earth worshipper. So for me, all of that information usually comes from being in places that are less populated by humans, or being in the forest, or even just being in the park.

I think being in the natural world and having that chance to downshift into that quietness, I think that is when I typically will receive either intuitive information or my imagination kind of comes into a different play.

I've had a lot of spiritual experiences, and I think the veil can be thin no matter what the time of year is. I just think that sometimes in the fall, it's a little bit more potent.

Joanna: Of course, with the various festivals that happen, Day of the Dead, it is a time of year when that is really focused on a lot more, this acknowledgement of death and the closeness of this other world that perhaps we don't live in every day, and certainly don't think about in the spring when we're just running around in the sun.

Jacqueline: Absolutely.

Joanna: So what's next for you? You have all these different things. You've got the various poetry collections and books.

What will you focus on next?

Jacqueline: Well, I have a book of poems that's finished that I'm just kind of trying to figure out who the publisher will be. So I'll probably start putting my energy into that. I'm really excited about that book. Then I have another idea for a book.

I'm about to move into this house that my husband and I have been restoring for the last few years. That will be a big shift in my life. I'll have a new studio space, and that always gives a lot of creative information. So I'm definitely gearing up for that.

Joanna: Oh, yes, moving house. That's a big one, isn't it? That really does change the energy.

Jacqueline: Yes, a new season for sure. A definite new season of my life. I'm about to turn 40. In November, I'll be 40. So there's a lot of big changes happening.

I always know that creatively, for me, space has a lot to do with what I create. That means like mental space, physical space. I think that I'm looking forward to that next chapter of having just a more grounded space and being able to settle into my home that I'll live in for the foreseeable future.

Joanna: Where can people find you and your books online?

Jacqueline: I have a website, JacquelineSuskin.com. I also have a Substack, if you look my name up on Substack. I do a lot of writing on there.

I'm on Instagram. @JSuskin is my Instagram. I try to keep all those things updated and put out a newsletter every month. So that's a good way to find me.

My books are anywhere you want to find a book, you can find my books for the most part.

Joanna: Great. Well, thanks so much for your time, Jacqueline. That was really interesting.

Jacqueline: Thanks for having me.

The post The Seasons Of Writing With Jacqueline Suskin first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]>
How can you adopt the seasons of nature in your writing? How can you allow periods of rest as well as abundance? Jacqueline Suskin explores these ideas and more in this interview. In the intro, thoughts on children's book publishing [Always Take Notes ... How can you adopt the seasons of nature in your writing? How can you allow periods of rest as well as abundance? Jacqueline Suskin explores these ideas and more in this interview.



In the intro, thoughts on children's book publishing [Always Take Notes Podcast]; how to market a memoir as an indie author [ALLi]; A desperate quest. A holy relic. A race against time. Spear of Destiny is live on Kickstarter!; What is Kickstarter and why am I launching there?, I'm on the Wordslinger Podcast talking about marketing later books in a series.



Book cover designer Stuart Bache on AI for book covers [Brave New Bookshelf]; OpenAI signs licensing deals with The Atlantic, Vox Media, and NewsCorp [OpenAI]






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Jacqueline Suskin is a poet, author, speaker, and creative consultant. Her latest book is A Year In Practice: Seasonal Rituals And Prompts To Awaken Cycles Of Creative Expression.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Writing a poem quickly, live and in person, or order



* Choosing the poems that go into a collection and knowing when it's finished



* The physical beauty of layout on the page



* Embracing the seasons of life and creativity



* Trust emergence



* Choosing the “easeful” path for your next project



* Celebrating our creative accomplishments while continuing our journey



* Practices to help us slow down



* ‘The veil is thin' and how it manifests in our work




You can find Jacqueline at JacquelineSu...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 55:10
Plan For Success In Your Indie Author Business And TikTok Marketing With Adam Beswick https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/27/plan-for-success-tiktok-marketing-adam-beswick/ Mon, 27 May 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36271 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/27/plan-for-success-tiktok-marketing-adam-beswick/#respond https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/27/plan-for-success-tiktok-marketing-adam-beswick/feed/ 0 <p>How can you plan for success as an indie author even early in your writing career? How can you create multiple streams of income and multiple marketing channels, while still writing your books? Adam Beswick goes into his strategies. In the intro, Kickstarter announces new functionality to help creatives;Watch out for a scam email about […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/27/plan-for-success-tiktok-marketing-adam-beswick/">Plan For Success In Your Indie Author Business And TikTok Marketing With Adam Beswick</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you plan for success as an indie author even early in your writing career? How can you create multiple streams of income and multiple marketing channels, while still writing your books? Adam Beswick goes into his strategies.

In the intro, Kickstarter announces new functionality to help creatives;Watch out for a scam email about ALLi [Writer Beware]; Gary Vaynerchuk on the shifting marketing arena [Marketing Against the Grain Podcast]; Day Trading Attention by Gary Vaynerchuk; Camera free video options [Brave New Bookshelf]

Plus, Microsoft Build event with new AI-enabled PCs and Copilot agents [Microsoft]; My thoughts on seeing Hamilton; and Spear of Destiny coming this week!

ProWritingAid

Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Adam Beswick is the best-selling author of the Levanthria series which has taken readers on epic journeys from corner to corner of the world. While mastering the craft of fantastical storytelling, Adam simultaneously embraces the rewarding challenges of family life as well as being an authorpreneur.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Setting the foundation for your author business
  • Having the confidence to financially invest in yourself
  • Wrestling with the “importance” of choosing a writing career
  • Creating multiple streams of income
  • Overcoming the initial fear of creating video marketing content
  • Staying consistent with your TikTok marketing and growing your viewership
  • How to diversify away from reliance on any single platform

You can find Adam at APBeswickPublications.com.

Transcript of Interview with Adam Beswick

Joanna: Welcome to the show, Adam.

Adam: Hi there. Thanks for having me.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you.

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Adam: Well, I started writing around 2017. I was a mental health nurse, working silly hours in really stressful environments. I absolutely loved my job, but I needed a bit of an outlet at the end of my day.

I started writing bedtime stories for my children. Then it was my eldest daughter who challenged me to write a proper story, as she said at the time. I was joking with her that by the time I've written it, you'll probably be old enough to read it. Lo and behold, two and a half or three years later, I had a story that was written.

I'd published my first book, which was Arnold Ethon and The Lions of Tsavo, which is now known as the Spirit Beast Series, as I've rebranded that story last year.

So that's really how I got into writing. I wrote a couple of books in that series, they were kind of YA urban fantasy. It was a bit confusing what genre it was in. Then I spent the next two years figuring out how to actually publish them.

I was listening to all your podcasts, listening to Jenna Moreci, Bethany Atazadeh, and quite a few different indie authors to get hints and tips on how to publish those books.

It wasn't really until 2022, when I pivoted and released a new book in a new series, which was A Forest of Vanity and Valour, which was a dark fantasy retelling inspired by Robin Hood, that my career started taking off.

Joanna: Oh, so interesting. So first of all, I love that you come from healthcare. I mean, as a mental health nurse, I feel like you bring an attitude of caring from that job. I've seen you speak, and I think that comes through in the way you are in the community, which I really appreciate.

I wanted to ask you about how you went full time as an indie author in 2023, and we're recording this in 2024. So this is a big decision. So you left that job, and—

Can you just tell us how you made the decision to leave the job and how you've dealt with that shift?

I know it's a big deal.

Adam: So the hardest part was convincing my wife that it was a stable career choice to be making. So, yes, throughout 2022, my books' trajectory started increasing.

It was late 2022 when I sat down with Mrs. Beswick and kind of laid out the financials and told her my intention that I really wanted to go full time. I did really enjoy my job. I was in a band 7 post in the NHS in a complex care commissioning team, which I did really enjoy.

I had a good sense of purpose, but the hours compared to the time it was allowing me to write and keep on track of everything for my indie author side that was really gathering momentum made it quite difficult to juggle the two.

Luckily, I managed to convince Mrs. Beswick that it was a good idea for me to go full-time. I think it was the 14th of February 2023 that I was able to leave that role in the complex care team in the CCG and become a full-time indie author. It was something that was incredible. I never thought it would ever happen.

So 2023 was more about working on my foundations which I had been putting into place in 2022. So making sure the foundations were right, and that that way I could progress and move into my 2024 plan, which was around growth.

So 2023, my primary focus was getting into a good routine, a healthy routine. I was making sure I was still being able to write books that people would enjoy, as well as planning far enough ahead to make sure there's plenty to look forward to keep me motivated as well.

Joanna: Well, on that, let's dig a bit more on what is working on foundations. You mentioned there a healthy routine and some planning, but—

Give us a sense of what foundations you were working on.

Adam: Okay, so the entire time before I went full time, in 2022 when A Forest of Vanity and Valour first started taking off, I had to learn fast with the networking side. What I mean by that is kind of replying to feedback and emails and comments on social media from readers and trying to build that engaged audience.

So 2022 and 2023, there was a really big focus on building those platforms and working on my newsletter. Making sure that my business was set up correctly has been absolutely key.

As we're all indie authors, our focus a lot of the time is just on writing the books.

What we actually forget is writing the books is only a part of that indie author career.

We've got to be marketing experts, and there's so many different hats that we have to wear, that one of the factors there as well was making sure that the business side was set up.

At first it’s quite overwhelming, but making sure that you're set up for success from the beginning is absolutely key so that you're not caught chasing your tail.

Joanna: Well on that, again, you come from healthcare, so how did you learn how to set up a business correctly? I mean, I worked in business, and I ran my own businesses, so that's always been easier for me because I had that experience. So how did you learn that?

How did you make sure you had the right [business] setup?

Adam: So as a nurse, one of the things that is drilled into you from the first day of your training is to be a reflective practitioner. A lot of those skills that I've kind of adapted as a nurse, I've transferred into my indie author career. So that reflexive practice is something that I've always done.

Seeing what's working, what can I change? If I were in that situation again, what could I do differently? How could I improve my responses?

Running the business is very much the same. You're not always going to get it perfect, but you have to be susceptible to feedback and being able to adapt, and be quick on your feet and pivot if things aren't going correctly.

What I made sure I was doing is that I got a good accountant that was able to advise me very well on how to adapt and change as my business continued to grow.

So for example, going from a sole trader to a limited company, how to set that up to go into being VAT registered. There's a lot of background stuff that can be quite overwhelming if you haven't got the right circle of people around you.

So in having a good accountant, they were able to explain everything to me, answer any questions that I might have. Obviously, I work more and more with them as my books have done better and better, as I've needed more and more support on certain elements of the business.

Joanna: I love that you did that because I also did that when I decided to leave my job as a consultant and do this. I planned to be successful, and I made a business plan for a six-figure business. It was something that is actually very rare, so well done for doing that.

Now for people listening who are like, “Whoa, Adam did that quite quickly.” So how do you have the confidence—since you started in 2017, really, but 2022 was when it really took off—

How do you have the confidence to spend the money on things like an accountant earlier on in the career when you don't necessarily know that things are going to carry on growing?

There are people listening who just don't know how they can make that step, I guess. So any tips around that?

Adam: So first and foremost, I invested in myself. It was easy to do when I was earning a full-time wage. Obviously, my time was spread a lot thinner, but when I was still working full time as a nurse, I had an income that covered all my bills.

So any extra income I was making through my books, I could just reinvest straight back into the business. So while I wasn't full time, and still had that main source of income coming in, I was using any money that was coming in to invest into those foundations I spoke about earlier.

So I was paying for future books to be formatted and edited. I was covering the cost of my audiobook narrator for multiple books in advance while that money was there.

Once all that stuff was paid for, and I could see that the royalties were kind of going beyond what I could spend on the business, that's where I started saving that money to one side to make sure I had six months wages saved up for the day that I did go full time.

Joanna: That six months, I also did the same thing. It's really interesting, I said to my husband, Jonathan, if I can't make this work in six months, then I will go back to my job. I imagine you said the same thing. In fact, you could go back anytime, right?

Adam: Well, it’s quite a surreal moment, really. So obviously, being a nurse, I have a yearly PIN that I have to register with the NMC. Last year, I renewed that, and it expires tomorrow, and I'm not going to renew it. It is a bit sad, but I haven't been practicing as a nurse for 15 months now.

I have the belief that my books and my publishing company will go from strength to strength.

So I guess you have to have that inner belief that you are going to succeed because they'll always be that seed of doubt. If you're not backing yourself, who else is going to back you?

Joanna: I agree. Well, then I'm going to ask you a question that came up a lot during the pandemic, and I've thought about it too.

How important is writing story when we maybe could do something “more important”?

Like people would say, oh, I should save lives, I should become a doctor or a nurse instead of writing stories. So I wondered if that's something you've wrestled with or any thoughts on that?

Adam: I think one element of how you could look at it is that in a way authors were kind of key workers in that pandemic. Everyone was trapped and isolated and alone, and there was a resurgence in books, in general, because more people were suddenly reading because they had nothing else they could do.

They couldn't socialize. So actually, if those stories didn't exist, a lot of people wouldn't have been able to find the escapism that they did during COVID. I continued writing.

I was running an extremely complex service-learning disability service near where I live when COVID hit. We were a week away from opening when we went into the first lockdown.

So I was working with some incredibly challenging and complex individuals with autism, mental health needs, challenging behaviors, and we had to carry out all that work during lockdown conditions.

So we were going into hospitals, working with individuals, transitioning them from one state hospital into living in their own flat in the community with the right levels of support.

Writing was a release to what was an incredibly stressful time for me. So that was my escape.

I was sitting down first thing in the morning, not so much last thing at night, and I was just up an hour before anyone else in the house got up. That way there was no time lost with my family, that my writing wasn't impacting my family life.

I just kept writing. The more motivated I got with stories, the more I found my stories were coming together a lot quicker.

Joanna: I love that. I actually have a quote on my wall. I only read it recently, but it helps me, which is by the horror writer, Adam Nevill. It says,

“If you are gifted with an imagination, it must be used.” Adam Nevill

I love that because you're obviously someone who also is gifted with imagination. You're also gifted in other ways, but I love that you're using it.

As you say, we help people through our stories. I know that took me a long time to really accept, and it's something I still think about. So yes, I love that.

So let's just come back to something else you said, which was in 2020, you pivoted. So you had The Spirit Beasts series that you rebranded, and then you moved into the dark fantasy retelling.

Why pivot? Is this about writing to market? How did you decide to do that?

Adam: It was a bit of both, really. So I was in the build up to the second book in my Spirit Beast series, as it was called then, and sales weren't anything breathtaking. Outside of family and friends, I was finding it incredibly hard to market.

Writing and releasing the books was difficult, in the sense that we're having to scrimp and scrape every penny we had to do the formatting and the book cover design. So I was kind of limited to releasing one book a year.

So I was actually sat watching the latest Robin Hood film with Mrs. Beswick, featuring Taron Egerton. At the end of the film, I was having a bit of a grumble that I didn't like it, and Mrs. Beswick lost it with me and just kind of said, “If you think you can do better, why don't you write it?”

So I just got the bit between my teeth and was like, right, okay. Then I sat down and thought, well, what if it wasn't Robin Hood's story, but more a retelling?

Then it kind of escalated to, oh, what if it was a fantasy retelling? So a completely new fantasy world, but it's more of the trope of Robin Hood that you recognize.

Then I was like, oh, what if Blackbeard lived in this world? What if there were witches, and King Arthur, and Merlin, and St. George? Then my mind just kept escalating.

I was like, oh, these could all be standalone stories that interconnect with characters that appear. Like in the first book there's a bit-part character, but by book three, they're a main character with a book around them. Then it just grew from there.

I think I wrote that book in a few months, and it was the quickest I've ever written a story because I was hyper-motivated once that concept started to grow. It all came about because Mrs. Beswick decided to challenge me because she was sick of me grumbling.

Joanna: I mean, there's lots of ideas that come up like that. So you wrote that book, but did you keep in mind the marketing?

How did you then discover that this was going to be the thing that would sell more easily?

Adam: I didn't. So at first, I was looking at how I could speed up the process of publishing, from a cost perspective, and I came across a platform called Kickstarter. I'm sure everyone is aware of it now.

I'm proud to say that my first Kickstarter finished about a month before Brandon Sanderson made it widely known that Kickstarter is a fantastic platform for publishing books.

The money that I was able to raise from that Kickstarter meant that I could publish A Forest of Vanity and Valour, and I had enough money to cover the costs for book two.

That meant I could release that three months after the first book came out, rather than a year. Up to that point, my books were taking me about a year at a time to release.

Joanna: So just tell us there so people get an idea, because you mentioned Brandon Sanderson, and, of course, his money on Kickstarter is ridiculous.

How much money did you make on that first Kickstarter?

Adam: Around two and a half thousand pounds.

Joanna: Okay, so let's say that's around three thousand US dollars. So this is not a Brandon Sanderson amount of money, but that was enough for you to take that and invest that in the books.

So then, let's talk about how you drove success from there. I feel like you talked a bit earlier about how you were building your engaged audience, and you mentioned a few things, but you're kind of well-known now around TikTok and using that platform.

Talk about when you started to use TikTok and why you decided to go that way.

Adam: I think it was January 6th, which was a week before A Forest of Vanity and Valour came out, that one of my friends who was my accountability partner, we'd had a conversation to say we're going to make 2022 our year.

To do that, I knew that I needed to say yes to more opportunities and stop being overly cautious and avoiding scenarios. I was always worried about what was going wrong, or what could go wrong and the risk, rather than looking at what the reward could be.

So my mantra was kind of as long as it doesn't put my family at detriment, then it's a risk that I'm happy to take, regardless of how uncomfortable that may make me.

Rob challenged me to join James Blatch's TikTok for Authors group, where they were doing a five-day TikTok challenge. It was designed to get yourself on camera and start talking about your books on a video format.

I was absolutely terrified. I couldn't hold the camera.

I tried filming myself, and I was shaking that much. It was ridiculous, it was only me in the room.

So I did the challenge, I filmed a video, and I think I released three videos a day, every day for five days. I became hooked very, very quickly. I started posting about A Forest of Vanity and Valour, letting people know about it, letting people know about me, introducing myself, trying different kinds of videos.

By the end of January, I'd made 100 pounds without spending a penny on advertising. That proved to be a pivotal moment and probably the most important part of my career so far.

Now, a lot of people might think that's a lot of work to do, and look and think, well, you've only made 100 pound profit. Whereas my mindset was that I've made 100 pounds without spending anything on ads. So I did a deep dive — 

I looked at the content that was generating engagement, and I just started tweaking it like you would a Facebook ad, doing your AB testing.

I kept trying different types of videos, and then continued posting three videos a day, until I think it was the back end of April, or middle of April, that I had my first semi-viral video. That meant that from two books I made just around 2000 pounds.

That really opened my eyes to what was possible from a video, from a content-making point of view. So that was all the motivation I needed.

I started thinking in small term goals. Let's aim to continue to get at least X amount of sales every day for a whole month, or X amount of page-reads. Then it was if I can do 2000 pounds a month for six months, that shows this is sustainable.

I just kept repeating that, trying different kinds of videos, releasing new content, but most importantly, keeping writing books, keeping the audience engaged and showing them what is coming in the future. As, obviously, it was a series that I was writing.

It just kind of went from strength to strength with the video marketing. In August of 2022, I had my first viral video, truly viral video, which was about 2 million views.

By that time I had two books out, but I also had had the audiobooks produced with the money I'd made that year from my books taking off on TikTok. It was just in that cycle of posting content, and I wasn't really chasing virality.

Virality, it's fantastic when it happens because it can set you up for more than a few months, but the focus for me was keeping posting content, keeping engaged, keeping motivated, keeping growing that audience for the remainder of 2022, and beyond into 2023.

Joanna: All right, a couple of things I want to come back on. So first of all, your business model around platforms and things. So you've mentioned Kickstarter, but then you also just mentioned page reads, and I think you also have your own store.

What kind of setup have you got around sales? How are you driving most of that revenue?

Adam: Okay, so obviously, I heavily use video marketing to direct traffic and sales. As everyone knows, with platforms like TikTok and Instagram reels, for example, you're not guaranteed that engagement. So your sales can't be as consistent as you might like.

So again, this is why the foundations of having your own audience to tap into is key. So last, I think it was 2023 about August time, I wasn't really happy with the page reads, what I was getting paid for page reads. My page reads weren't necessarily groundbreaking, I have a lot of people that will buy the physical copies of my books.

So in September, I set up my own store. I took all my books out of Kindle Unlimited, and I took all my audiobooks from exclusivity with ACX.

I set up my own bundles on my store and started working with a company called Bookvault to print my books.

They will print the books, and they'll distribute books, so I don't have to worry about having a huge amount of stock, and they're print on demand. I started letting my followers know about it. Between September and December, my store just completely blew up. It was absolutely insane how well it was doing.

People were really interested in that story, it wasn't just the books they were interested in. It wasn't that I was completely unhappy with Amazon, but I think I'd be lying if I didn't say we all have grumbles that things could be better with royalty rates, things like that.

It just felt like everywhere I went to, the indie author and the creator who has put all this money and invested all this time into the product, was actually getting the smallest piece of the pie. Which again, when I get the bit between my teeth, it kind of sends me into hyper focus.

So my store became my priority. So I still left my books on Amazon, but all my links, everywhere I directed people, was just to my store.

I started hitting five-figure sales on my store within that first month, and that's continued ever since.

What I was also surprised by was my Amazon sales were kind of matching what my store was doing. It was kind of neck and neck for the rest of the year, which is something that I really didn't expect.

So I've just gone from strength to strength, and my focus now is having as many income streams as possible. I've got a wife, a family, and children to support, so I need to protect them as best as I can.

The best way I can do that with my books is to have as many different revenue streams as possible. It doesn't matter how small that stream might be trickling in because it all adds up down the line.

So I've got some audiobooks on YouTube. I'm just in the process of setting up Ream, which is a subscription platform like Patreon. That's something I've only started doing recently.

I'm on Amazon. My eBooks are wide now from Draft2Digital. They're on Findaway Voices, my audiobooks, and they're on ACX as well, just on the frustratingly lower end of the royalty scale.

Joanna: I love that, and I really think this is something that a lot of people don't realize with selling direct. As you've done, and as I've done, is that directing all the traffic to your store means that people will still look at it, but a lot of them will just buy elsewhere. So that's what you've seen.

Let's come back to the video. So you said, originally, you were in the room on your own, you were terrified, you had anxiety, and you were worried about it. Look, I am someone who has not done much video because I just don't like it. I just don't want to do it.

I feel like there's pressure as a woman to wear makeup on videos, and I just cannot be bothered. Also, that's not how I spend my time as a consumer. I don't watch video. I'm not on TikTok, or YouTube Reels, or any of the YouTube Shorts, all of these things.

So I feel this massive resistance to video, but everybody seems to suggest that this is a very good thing to do. So if there are people listening who are like me, and they just do not want to do video, what are your thoughts on people like me? Should we even bother?

Are there ways we can do video without using our faces?

Adam: There's tons of different ways of creating short form and long form video content. I suppose you've got to find the balance of what works for you.

Now ultimately, if you've tried it and it just doesn't work for you, don't push yourself. Ultimately, you don't want to give yourself anxiety, but you're going to have to look at other organic or paid ways to generate traffic.

Now, video content is a great way as a new indie author to generate that interest, and find new readers, and potentially create that small level of income that you need to invest back into your business to then start building that sustainable growth over a period of time.

It's not going to happen overnight. There's too many people that will post videos sporadically over a month, once every three, four, or five days.

With your video content, you've got to show up every day. You've got to be creative.

That's not necessarily a bad thing because you're constantly trying to figure out what's working, what's not working. Then when you think you've solved it, TikTok, Instagram, they all change their algorithms just to keep us on our toes.

So it is about adapting, you have to have a strong mindset and a belief that you can achieve it. You also have to be aware that it could take months, it could take six, seven months of putting the work in before you start seeing the results. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I think if you were to have a video take off on day one, you kind of psychologically have that expectation that you deserve your video to go viral every single time you post. Ultimately, TikTok and Instagram, they don't owe us any favors.

It doesn't mean they're punishing us when a video doesn't go out, it just means that that given day, that given time, that video just didn't resonate with people. There's absolutely nothing to stop you reposting that video another time. Again, that might work, and sometimes it might not work.

At the moment, TikTok doesn't seem to particularly like reposted content. The viral video I spoke about earlier that got 2 million views on TikTok in August 2022, on Instagram that same video has generated 10 million views.

It was posted quite a few times because there's times where it doesn't get views, and then there's times where it just goes crazy and starts getting that engagement. Every time they do, it generates sales.

Once you've created the content, you've got it forever. So you can repost that as many times as you feel comfortable doing. If you don't post about your books, people aren't going to know about them. If you post about them, what's the worst that can happen?

Joanna: Yes, and I think you're right.

Everyone has to have some way of marketing, and whichever thing it is, concentrate on that.

I mean, obviously I have the podcast, I have a big email list. I use, I guess, more traditional methods.

I think, as I said to you before we started recording, I came into this 2006/2007, and I feel like I need to relearn a lot of things, especially as things change, as they do all the time.

That's why I love listening to you, and when you spoke at Seville, and I listened to other people, and it's like, things do change. So while some things stay the same, some things change.

I did want to ask you, so earlier you said that you were struggling to sell that first series and it was hard to market. So you only started doing TikTok on a series that did start selling. So is it that TikTok is not a magic bullet to sell anything, it needs to still be used for book series that are already selling? Or—

Have you tried marketing that other series that was hard to market?

Adam: I have tried. I have completely rebranded the other series. I've sunk quite a lot of money into having new covers designed, rewriting them, having them re-edited because I wasn't happy with the editing the first time around. I'm happy with the books, but they don't make any significant amount of money.

The readers enjoy it, which is what is important. I know if I stopped marketing my Levanthria Series and focused on my Spirit Beast Series for a couple of months, they probably would start shifting more.

There's more books in my Levanthria Series, which means that's my main income maker, so there is more of a focus. So I suppose I can be guilty myself of neglecting it.

It is part of my plan over the next few months just to start giving The Spirit Beast Series the attention that it deserves. Whether that be looking at the more conventional ways of marketing, like email newsletters and stuff like that, paid promos, Facebook ads.

I think what my focus is going to be is kind of splitting my time better. So I went to SPS Live last year, and Marc Reklau gave a fantastic talk. One of the take homes there was his 80/20 split.

So I've kind of broke that into different segments. So for example, this week, 80% of my time I've set specifically for writing because I'm writing a new book. 20% is the business and marketing side of stuff.

Now, within that 20%, 80% of my marketing will be focused on The Levanthria Series, and 20% will be focused on other things that I'm working on, other books or other projects or new things that I'm releasing, if that makes sense.

So it's just about balancing that time right to make sure that I'm able to market other series more, but it's always hard. Again, it's a mindset thing. You can put a few videos out, and if they don't take, you kind of get deflated. Then I'll naturally go back to my series that I know sells, which I can be guilty of.

Joanna: Well, the fact is, it's true, and many authors don't like it, but in every business—

80% of the revenue comes from 20% of the books.

Or 20% of the work. I mean, that 80/20 rule works for so many things. In a traditional publishing house with millions of books, only a small number of those are going to be the money drivers. The same is true for us, as authors, I think.

Out of my catalogue, there are books that barely sell a single copy in a month. I mean, it really is concentrate on the ones that do make money, and then put time, as you say, into new series and other things that might be more experimental.

I did want to just come back on one thing. We're recording this the end of April 2024, and in the US last week, President Joe Biden signed into law the ban of the app TikTok within the next, let's say, nine months, unless it's sold from the Chinese owner.

It might not happen, or there might be a sale to somebody, maybe Mark Zuckerberg or whoever. Like whatever happens, there are going to be some changes. I mean, even if it doesn't sell, there are always changes in the algorithms, as you said.

What is your advice to authors who might be worried about what might happen to TikTok if they're relying on it for a lot of traffic and sales?

Adam: Yes, so you've got to have a backup plan. Now, TikTok has kind of blown up again in America with TikTok Shop. Now, we were fortunate enough to get that around six to nine months before it kind of landed in America.

I know so many indie authors in America who their careers are thriving because of TikTok Shop, and I absolutely get why they would be worried. TikTok Shop enables people to literally watch a video and buy a physical book, there and then, while still watching the video. That level of integration can really drive sales.

I used to TikTok Shop, but I've kind of pivoted to focus more on my store. That's, again, just because the profit lines are better, and they work for me. So again, it's just about how you want to manage that.

I like to have my eggs in multiple baskets, rather than all being in one.

I used to just be on Kindle, and Amazon, and KDP, and it was just over a year ago when all the horror stories were coming about.

People's accounts were just being banned out of the blue, the crime being their books had been pirated by other people, which they've got no control over. It frightened me, especially because I was quite damn dependent on my income from my books.

So I made the decision then to start exploring wide options. It wasn't until three or four months later in September, having spoken to a friend of mine and her husband, Laura and Ross Bertie, where their focus was direct selling, that it really opened my eyes.

Even after having that conversation and the difference it made for them, it still took me a couple of months to actually start implementing that change. We're all scared to change, but we kind of have to embrace it.

The worst thing we can do as creatives is get stuck in a monotonous routine because it'll just affect how we write, how we market our books. So just explore in different ways, in different avenues of advertising.

For example, we're on TikTok fire. It's a free platform for marketing our books, which is great, but that doesn't mean it's always going to be free. You've got to be ready to pivot and change at the drop of a hat.

It's us that has to change, not the platform.

So use it while it's there. Use any upcoming platforms that you think might make a difference. Again, I'm in the UK, so it's not as scary for me, but I've got a big readership in America. Like 70% of my readers are based in America, so it could impact me massively.

So again, it's using the time we've got to inform people, let people know what your concerns are, try and build that connection to say, “Well, we don't know what's going to happen with the app. There's a link to my newsletter in my bio if you want to keep in touch,” in case anything happens to you.

Or you can set up a store with the integrations, for example, like Shopify. Then you're not as reliant just on TikTok Shop or TikTok driving the traffic. If you are making money, make sure you are investing that back into your business.

So for example, for the last four or five months, I've been investing money into Facebook ads, which are the bane of my life, I absolutely hate them. I think paid marketing is the biggest con going because, again, the marketing companies make money more money than we do.

I've had to kind of bite that bullet because I need to find a way to get ads working for my Levanthria Series because I know that's the only way I can focus on a new series that I'm writing or other projects that I'm working on, from a video marketing perspective.

Otherwise, my attention is always going to be split between books. So I've got the video content I know that works, so I'm pivoting by running paid Facebook ads to my store to try and keep those sales coming in for one series.

So then I can focus on my other platforms, not just TikTok, and any other growing platforms. So for example, the last two weeks, I've been more heavily involved on Threads because there's quite a big author community growing on there, which is great.

So it is just that. Don't get sucked into just having one avenue to generate traffic or generate that engagement.

You need to be active over time, over multiple platforms, which in itself can be quite overwhelming.

So you have to find a balance that works for you and that isn't a detriment to yourself, your family, or your mental health.

Joanna: Absolutely. Everything we've learned, since I've been an indie author as well, is that things change, and often they move from free to paid.

So Facebook used to be free to reach people, and then it ended up being mostly paid traffic. A lot of the stuff on Amazon has changed. You mentioned ACX. I mean, when that first came out, the royalties were much, much higher, and then they kind of ratcheted lower over time.

So I think you're right. Everything that we do, you can't take it for granted that it's going to last. I mean, Twitter/X also is another example of something that completely changed under new ownership. So, yes, very good to think about. We're almost out of time, and—

You have been working on a new project. So tell us more about that.

Adam: Yes, so, I've got a few projects because I like to keep myself busy. So not only am I writing a brand new series in a brand new genre, which is LitRPG, which I am having an absolute blast with that. It is probably the most fun I've had writing a book in a long time.

I've also set up a publishing imprint to start publishing books by other authors. I've been working with a bestselling author Cara Clare, creating a new pen name for a dark fantasy romance series that she has written.

That we will be publishing through my new imprint, which is Arcane Passion Press. That comes out on the 28th of May.

Joanna: Yes, so as this goes out, it will be tomorrow. So hopefully by the time it goes out, people can go and have a look at that. So do you have a whole new sort of website and a whole new sort of place for that? Or is that still through your main website?

Adam: Yes, so Mrs. Beswick started working full time with me at the beginning of this year, as it was just too much for me to do because I like spinning plates, but some were starting to smash on the floor.

We've been busy behind the scenes kind of getting, again, all those foundations set up. So the website is live now, AlexisBrookeBooks.com.

We've got a profile on Ream set up where you can actually read the story for free at the moment, but when this goes out, you won't be able to anymore as the book will be launching on Kindle Unlimited. The book is called The Jester, which is a fae fantasy romance.

Joanna: Tell people where they can find you and everything you do online.

Adam: So my store is APBeswickPublications.com, that's where I drive all my traffic. My books are also available wide on Amazon, and digitally through Draft2Digital across a lot of other platforms. Same with my audiobooks, they're available wide.

I've got a website in development which will start integrating the novel games community, which is the social media marketing side of things that I do, because I just like to keep myself busy, apparently.

Joanna: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for your time, Adam. That was great.

Adam: Thank you.

The post Plan For Success In Your Indie Author Business And TikTok Marketing With Adam Beswick first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]> How can you plan for success as an indie author even early in your writing career? How can you create multiple streams of income and multiple marketing channels, while still writing your books? Adam Beswick goes into his strategies. In the intro, How can you plan for success as an indie author even early in your writing career? How can you create multiple streams of income and multiple marketing channels, while still writing your books? Adam Beswick goes into his strategies.



In the intro, Kickstarter announces new functionality to help creatives;Watch out for a scam email about ALLi [Writer Beware]; Gary Vaynerchuk on the shifting marketing arena [Marketing Against the Grain Podcast]; Day Trading Attention by Gary Vaynerchuk; Camera free video options [Brave New Bookshelf]



Plus, Microsoft Build event with new AI-enabled PCs and Copilot agents [Microsoft]; My thoughts on seeing Hamilton; and Spear of Destiny coming this week!






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Adam Beswick is the best-selling author of the Levanthria series which has taken readers on epic journeys from corner to corner of the world. While mastering the craft of fantastical storytelling, Adam simultaneously embraces the rewarding challenges of family life as well as being an authorpreneur.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Setting the foundation for your author business



* Having the confidence to financially invest in yourself



* Wrestling with the “importance” of choosing a writing career



* Creating multiple streams of income



* Overcoming the initial fear of creating video marketing content



* Staying consistent with your TikTok marketing and growing your viewership



* How to diversify away from reliance on any single platform




You can find Adam at https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36270 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/20/outlining-tips-and-video-marketing-on-youtube-with-jenna-moreci/#comments https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/20/outlining-tips-and-video-marketing-on-youtube-with-jenna-moreci/feed/ 1 <p>How can you outline a story based on a ‘thought dump' and interweave genre tropes you love to create a successful book? How can you use video marketing to reach more readers, even if you are an introvert? Jenna Moreci gives her tips. In the intro, my new ProWritingAid tutorial; Embracing change and starting over […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/20/outlining-tips-and-video-marketing-on-youtube-with-jenna-moreci/">Outlining Tips And Video Marketing On YouTube With Jenna Moreci</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you outline a story based on a ‘thought dump' and interweave genre tropes you love to create a successful book? How can you use video marketing to reach more readers, even if you are an introvert? Jenna Moreci gives her tips.

In the intro, my new ProWritingAid tutorial; Embracing change and starting over [Wish I'd Known Then Podcast]; OpenAI released ChatGPT 4o; Using 4o as a tutor [Khan Academy]; Claude 3 now in Europe; Google IO announcements including Search impact [The Verge; My episode on impact of generative search; Hard Fork Podcast; Platformer]; Spear of Destiny Kickstarter, and my deadlift PB.

Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Jenna Moreci is the bestselling author of dark fantasy romance, The Savior's Series, and books for authors including Shut Up and Write the Book: A Step-by-Step Guide to Crafting Your Novel From Plan to Print. She's also a YouTuber at Writing with Jenna Moreci, with over 300,000 subscribers.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

  • Structuring and outlining — utilizing the “thought dump”
  • The planning process for including tropes in your book
  • How long should an outline be?
  • Conquering fears and distractions to get words on the page
  • Researching publishing options as a first time author
  • Getting comfortable in front of the camera through trial and error
  • How to build a channel around a fiction author business
  • Different goals of short form and longer form video marketing

You can find Jenna at JennaMoreci.com or on her YouTube channel Writing with Jenna.

Transcript of Interview with Jenna Moreci

Joanna: Jenna Moreci is the bestselling author of dark fantasy romance, The Savior's Series, and books for authors including Shut Up and Write the Book: A Step-by-Step Guide to Crafting Your Novel From Plan to Print.

She's also a YouTuber at Writing with Jenna Moreci, with over 300,000 subscribers. So, welcome to the show, Jenna

Jenna: Thank you so much for having me. It is such an honor to be here.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you. First up—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Jenna: Well, how I got into writing, it's literally been my lifelong dream ever since I was a child. I've wanted to be a writer since I was six years old. So it, quite literally, is a childhood dream fulfilled.

With my first job after college, I was a stockbroker. Which is just like writing, right? It is exactly the same thing, you know, dealing with finances. So similar to writing.

Basically, I was working full time in finance, and I really, really, really just did not enjoy it. I had this moment where I thought, you know what, this is going to be my life. I'm going to be trading stocks forever, and I can't do it.

So I thought I would, at the very least, give writing a shot since that was my dream, and I had been writing stories my whole life on the side. So I figured I would go ahead and try to write a book and see how it did.

My goal was for it to be a lucrative side gig, something that made my life feel fulfilling while I paid the bills working in finance. Then along the way, things happened. My partner suffered a major accident, so I had to quit my job so I could sign on to be his caregiver and help him recover from the accident.

During that time, I started my YouTube channel. I started it on a whim because a lot of people told me that I would be good at YouTube. It wasn't something I was really interested in because, like a lot of authors, I'm an introvert.

I did not want my face on the internet, but I gave it a shot. My goal was 100 subscribers, and nearly 300,000 subscribers later, at some point, it blew up.

Due to the YouTube channel blowing up, my first novel sold well enough that I was able to make writing a full-time job.

Now at this point in my life, I'm on my fifth and sixth novel, and I write and do YouTube full time. I never thought that this would be where my life was headed, but here we are.

Joanna: I love that. Obviously, we have some similarities. My job before this was in accounts payable, and I used to implement systems. So it was a similar feeling of I just cannot do this for the rest of my life.

So lots to come back on there. I've been through your book, so we'll start with the writing process, and then we'll get back into YouTube and business. So you talk about structure and outlining in your book, and I'm a discovery writer, so I'm always absolutely fascinated by outlining.

Can you talk about how you structure and outline your dark fantasy romances?

Jenna: Well, the very first thing I do is what I call the thought dump. It is basically brainstorming, but thought dumping just feels like a more accurate picture.

Basically, I just write down any and all ideas that I have for the story. It doesn't need to be in any specific order, and it doesn't need to be in any kind of structure. It's just any possible idea that I have.

It could be streams of dialogue, it could be world building elements, it could be a fight scene, it could be a kiss scene, it doesn't matter. Once I feel like I have exhausted all of my ideas for that moment, then I start going through the ideas.

Then I start finding the ones where it's like, “Oh, this kind of sucks, we're not going to use this one,” or, “Oh, this one is workable. This feels like it could be a plot point,” or, “This feels like it could be the dark night of the soul,” or something like that. I start trying to find the gems within the dump.

Once I get to that point, it's sort of like piecing together a puzzle. I actually call it the puzzle phase, which is where I take the gems that I found in the thought dump and categorize them into specific plot points, like the first kiss, or the inciting incident, or different pieces of the rising action.

You can do this digitally, you can use some kind of software to do this. I like the physical feeling of doing this. So I usually do it with sticky notes and a poster board. I will write down the plot points on the sticky notes and just rearrange them on the poster board until they fit some kind of realistic structure or sequence.

At that point, there's going to be tons of holes because your thought dump is not going to be flawless. It's going to be incredibly flawed. So at that point, I start trying to fill in the hole.

So it's like I've got two pieces of the rising action, but I need more of a mini climax, or I need a greater crisis or something like that. I start trying to figure out how can I piece point A to point C. Where's the point B in the middle? So that's also part of the whole puzzle aspect.

For me, it's fun figuring out how I can make all of these points combine together.

Once I feel like I have a very full flow in terms of the structure and outline of the story, I start dividing it into chapters. I look for natural breaks, where it's like this would be a great cliffhanger.

I like to make sure that my chapters begin and end on very opposite emotional tones. So maybe if the chapter begins in a really happy way, I want it to end in a sad, scary, angry way, just something that's very different from how it started.

So I look for those shifts within the post it notes, essentially, and I start dividing it into chapters. Once I have that structure down, that's when I actually start the outline, and I'll start typing it up.

I will take elements from the thought dump that haven't been utilized but I still really enjoy, and I will find places to shove those elements in. Maybe there's a big conversation that I want the two lovebirds to have, and I'm like, oh, it would fit really, really well in this particular scene.

So it's just about taking the thought dump, breaking it down into its most basic pieces, and then once those pieces all fit together perfectly, adding in all of the extra fluff and details, everything that kind of makes the story shine.

Joanna: You have videos about tropes on your channel. I mean, I often look at my books later and go, “Oh, that's that trope,” where I discovery wrote it, and it ended up there.

Do you look at the tropes of romance, and then you make sure that they go into that outline?

Jenna: I'm a little bit like you and a little bit like planning that way. For me, the discovery aspect of writing is the character arc. I know where I want my characters to head, but I don't necessarily know how they're going to feel about it as the story progresses.

So that's what's really fun for me is watching the transition of my characters starting off as this one type of character and ending another way. Like, how do they feel about that? How did they get to that point?

So a lot of tropes revolve around character development. So those tropes for me are always like, “Oh, look where we ended up. This is great.”

For example, my character, Tobias, he starts off at the beginning of the book kind of a cinnamon roll, naive, doesn't really know politics and things like that. By the end of the book, he ended up being quite morally gray.

Morally gray is an on-trend character type right now, and it's considered a popular trope in romanticized books. It wasn't something that I had originally planned, but here we are, now Tobias is a morally gray character.

Then there are other tropes where it's just that I'm such a huge fan of the trope that I have to include this. So for example, forbidden romance is one of my favorite tropes. So that was one where I was like, right from the gate, this is going to be a forbidden romance. We have to do it, we have to make it happen.

Joanna: Yes, and combining those different things that you love with the things that the readers expect is, I guess, the point.

Just to come back on the actual writing, so you have this outline. So I guess—

How long is your outline?

Is it just like a 10-page Word document or something?

Jenna: My outlines are long. I say this in Shut Up and Write the Book, it completely depends on the person. Some people are pantsers or discovery writers, some people really need a structure, some people are somewhere in between.

So when I say this, I just like to make sure everyone knows you don't have to do what I do. My outlines can be like 30 pages long and super detailed.

It's funny because I'll have one chapter that is a page-long outline, and then I'll have another chapter that's just one line. It's like, “They fight here.” Then I get to that part of the outline, and I'm like, oh, no, now I have to figure everything out on the fly.

My outlines tend to be really long. That’s in large part because I'm very character focused. A lot of the ideas that I come up with early on are conversations between characters. So I will have entire streams of dialogue in my outline, just sort of waiting to be used.

I know a lot of people in those situations will just write the conversation, write the scene in full and then save it for later. I like to just shove it in my outline and be like that is future Jenna's problem. Future Jenna can craft the conversation and the narrative around it, but this is what I want them to say in that moment.

Joanna: You say it's quite long, but Jeffrey Deaver, the mystery writer, his outlines are like 200 pages long.

Jenna: Okay, good. That makes me feel better.

Joanna: James Patterson famously does outlines, and I think his are maybe three chapters each page. So yes, it's such an interesting process. Of course, everybody listening does it differently, too.

Let's get on to the actual writing. So you've got this outline, and the title of your book for authors is Shut Up and Write. It is kind of funny because you have a book on writing, and I have a book How To Write a Novel, and we're basically saying, “Shut up and read our books, and then go and write.”

I guess this is one of the problems for writers—well, not a problem, because we're a self-sustaining industry—but I definitely remember reading like 100 craft books before actually writing something.

How can newer authors get over the fear of putting the words on a page, or just stop with all the distractions and shut up and write?

How can they get to that page if they're new writers?

Jenna: I host live streams on Mondays, and that's a question that I get almost in every single live stream. Every time I'm like, “You're not going to like the answer. I'm so sorry,” because I know a lot of people just think the fear is going to go away if they do XYZ.

They think, oh, like, I just have to wave a wand, and do a little dance, and I don't know, eat this special food, and it's not like that.

From my experience, and I'm someone who has been doing this for a decade now, I still have days where I'm like, “Oh, I don't want to write. It's going to be bad. I just know that everything I write is going to be terrible.”

I just feel like you have to grit your teeth and do it and understand that the fear is going to be there, and it's not going to go away until you actually start writing words on the page. So I think a lot of it is just grit, and getting it done, and doing the thing.

I think a lot of it is understanding that the fear is normal. It's not unique to you, everyone experiences it at some point in time. You just kind of have to open up the Word doc and keyboard Smash, just do something.

I feel like once you get the words flowing, the fear will start to dissipate.

Then you wonder why you wasted so much time to begin with.

Another thing is to set yourself up for success, and this is something that takes trial and error. Everyone thrives in their own unique way while writing. Everyone's different.

So for example, I have a friend who has to be playing music while they write. Whereas, for me, music is more of an idea phase thing. It's not so much in the writing process.

I know some people who can't have any distractions. They have to make sure that the Wi-Fi is off, and there's nothing going on. It's just the blank Word document page.

For me, I need a little bit of distraction. I need the temptation of reward. So I thrive in the way of being like, “Okay, if I just finish this scene, I can take a break online and watch some YouTube videos,” or something like that.

So for me, it's just a matter of understanding what would make you most successful. Some people, they need to have an office that they write in. I need to be comfortable while writing, so I write in bed. For other people, if they would write in bed, they'd just fall asleep.

So it's all about setting up your environment so that it is most suitable for you to actually get words on the page. The only thing I would say outside of that is don't let that be an excuse, because sometimes the environment isn't ideal, but we still have to get the words done. In those situations, you just got to grit your teeth and do the thing.

Joanna: I think you're right. I mean, you said just do something. Once you get started, then you can make it better later, right? Just get some words down.

To be fair, I think it's harder as a discovery writer because you don't have an outline. So I always say to people that I write out of order because I don't know where it's going. So I will just start writing that fight scene or whatever it is, and then I'll figure out the rest of it later.

So in a way, I guess it's easier because you can just start wherever and then rearrange things. Then when you're writing your actual word chapters, you've got an outline.

So do you just write start to finish? Do you just go in order?

Jenna: Yes. When I have written out of order, it has always been a huge mistake for me. So I've always had to rewrite everything. Like it's terrible, I've just got to start all the way over. So I just follow my outline.

That's another thing that I tell people. Like if you are new to this, and you are really struggling with not knowing what to write next, outline the next scene really quickly. Just jot it down. If you don't have an outline, just whip something up really quickly, so at least you know where to go.

It's kind of like training wheels. It helps you out a little bit as you're going. So, at least for me, it's like I always know what I need to write next, it's just sometimes I don't feel like writing it.

Joanna: That's also the same for me. So let's just talk about publishing before we get into all the marketing side. So with an audience like you have, and you're marketing savvy and everything—

What did you think about when you were publishing the first book? How did your publishing choices work?

Jenna: Like a lot of writers, I initially thought I was going to go traditional. I thought I understood the publishing landscape, but I wanted to make sure that I thoroughly researched my options. I'm so glad I did because I was definitely misinformed about traditional publishing.

After doing thorough research, I decided to go the indie route. I read a lot of books about both sides of things, I read a lot of articles, but the determining factor for me was actually interviewing other authors.

I interviewed a ton of people because I wanted to get the first-person perspective of people who had actually been through either traditional or indie. A vast majority of them were super negative and jaded.

They were like, “Don't do it. If you become a writer, you're going to waste your life, and you're never going to make any money, and blah blah blah.” They were just not happy with their life or their choices.

There were two authors who were really, really happy as writers, and one was indie, and one was traditional. The indie writer had just released independently their first novel, and it was selling well enough where they projected that by the second novel, they would be able to be doing this full time.

So they weren't there yet, but they were nearing it. They saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and they were really, really excited about it.

Then when I talked to the traditional author, she was an older woman, and basically she was telling me that she was with her traditional publisher for 20 years and ten books.

It was after the 20-year mark that her publishing house started taking her seriously.

They were giving her higher advances, not cutting the book after two years on the shelf. So basically, she had been writing for 20 years, and at that point, she was able to transition into writing full time.

She was like, “Don't worry. If you're patient, and you just write those books, and keep at it, and hound that publisher, eventually, you'll be able to do it full time.”

I just thought to myself, I don't want to wait 20 years. I mean, basically, she was at retirement age when she was able to do writing full time. I was like, I don't want to wait until retirement age to do that. At the time, I was in my late twenties. So that's when I decided to go indie.

I still maintain that there are vast pros and cons to either indie or traditional, and I think hybrid is also a really great option. It's just a matter of an individual writer's strengths, their goals, and whether the pros and cons of each side matter to them.

For example, the biggest con of indie publishing, in my opinion, is that it can be expensive. If you are in a financially comfortable place, that might not be as big of a problem for you as someone who is not in a financially comfortable place.

So it's just a matter of weighing the pros and cons and seeing how heavily they impact your life.

Joanna: Of course, there are lots of ways to bootstrap as an indie. So it doesn't have to be expensive, but you do have to invest in it as a business. If you want to make money, you do have to invest money, as you say, in terms of editing, cover design, and all that. Just coming back there—

You said you were misinformed about traditional publishing before you did that research. What did you think it was?

Jenna: I thought, and this is something that a lot of writers who talked to me all had the same impression, that the traditional publishing house are just going to do all the marketing for you. They're just going to promote you and try and make you a big deal.

I thought, and what a lot of writers think, that you're going to get the Stephen King experience. I researched it, and it's like Stephen King gets the Stephen King experience.

Everyone else, unless you have a large platform already, and you've got this large audience, the odds are that they're not going to invest a lot of marketing power in you. I was like, well, that kind of sucks.

Then I researched what the publishing house would do for me outside of marketing, and they were all things—I have a business background—they were all things that I was like, well, I'm comfortable doing this myself, and anything that I don't know, I think I can easily learn.

So the way I thought is, well, I'm going to be marketing myself no matter which option I go. I would rather market myself and get the higher royalty check, so I think I'm going to go indie.

Joanna: Yes, and as you said, I mean, you weigh up every decision in the future. I mean, you might write a series in the future. I'm 15-plus years into this now, and I have some ideas that I might pitch to various publishers.

For people who are newer to the industry listening, it's not an either/or forever decision. There's pros and cons every single time, every single book. So I think the industry changes so fast, and it's good to reassess.

You mentioned your business background there. Just having a look at the various things you do—

What are your multiple streams of income for your business right now?

Jenna: Just going back on what you said really quickly, I'm actually in the process of becoming a bit of a hybrid author, so I could not agree more with you. It's like you reassess over time because right now being hybrid is a great option for me, but at the start, it wasn't. So I definitely encourage people to be open to opportunities and whatnot.

So my multiple streams of income, obviously, my biggest stream of income is my book sales. That's probably the highest percentage of my earnings. I have a YouTube channel, so I have ad revenue from my YouTube videos. I have the ads enabled.

Sometimes I accept sponsorships, which is when a company that is writing related will be like, “Hey, can you basically do a little mini commercial and promote us on your video?”

If you are going into YouTube or podcasting or something where you get sponsorships, I would just encourage you to pick the ones that maybe are the best fit for your audience. I've received some wild sponsorship requests. I mean, I've had underwear requests. I had a mini cordless chainsaw, that was a strange one.

Joanna: You should have done that.

Jenna: I was kind of tempted. It's like, “Do you hate your manuscript? Do you want to saw it in half? Well, have I got the solution for you.”

So just keep it in mind. I tried to keep my sponsors writing related or social media related.

I also have merch available for people who enjoy my YouTube channel or my books. I do affiliate arrangements with other writing related companies like NovelPad.

I also have courses that people can take and learn a little bit more about the publishing process and marketing themselves. So those are my various streams of income.

I would say book sales are my most prominent stream of income. Then after that, it would be a YouTube ad revenue or sponsorships.

Joanna: So let's come back on the video because you said earlier that you are an introvert and you do video. So people always say to me, like, “Oh, you're not an introvert because you do podcasting.” I'm like, that just doesn't make any sense because it's just the two of us as we're doing it.

I do social media and all the stuff you do as well, but I definitely do not do much video. My YouTube channel, The Creative Penn is mostly audio only with an image on top. Many authors hate the thought of video.

So what are your tips for authors who know that we really should do video these days, but we just hate it, and we're worried about it, or it's just too much work?

So what are your thoughts there?

Jenna: This is another situation where you just have to understand that it's normal. It's uncomfortable, especially at first. I've been doing this for 10 years now, and I still get like, do I look okay? Like is my lipstick smudged? I still have those moments.

It's an adjustment, like anything else. It will eventually start to feel just like a normal part of your life. If people are like, “Oh, I'm too introverted to do this,” you're just talking into a camera. No one else is there.

I mean, it tuckers me out just in the sense of how much talking I have to do. I batch film, so I'll film all my videos for one month in one day. So that element will exhaust me, but it doesn't tire me out in the same way socializing does because I'm not talking to anyone. I'm talking to a camera. I am alone in my studio.

So I think what I would tell writers is that it will feel better as time goes on. Don't wait for everything to be perfect because you need trial and error to perfect your channel.

Your first few videos are going to be your worst, you're going to cringe later when you watch them, but you need to get them done. You need to start somewhere, so just understand that it's only going to go up from there.

So get those first few videos out, see how they perform, see what's going right, see what's going wrong, see what people are responding to, what they're not responding to, and tweak and adjust from there.

My biggest piece of advice, especially because writers are introverted and uncomfortable in front of the camera, is to be authentic.

As someone who did videos for months before they saw any traction, once I stopped trying to put on this professional front and I started just behaving like myself, that's when my videos started to perform well.

So authenticity is something that people can absolutely notice and respond to, especially on a platform like YouTube. You may think you're weird, or quirky, or boring, or something like that. Just be your authentic self, and someone out there will appreciate it.

Joanna: Both you and I have our primary media platforms for the nonfiction audience, the authors.

So how would someone advertise or market or build a channel around their fiction?

Do you have some ideas for more about that rather than the tip-based content?

Jenna: Just in general, I think that at this point, if you're getting on YouTube specifically, I wouldn't recommend giving writing advice. When I started my channel, I was very lucky because there were only two other writing advice channels out there. So I was kind of entering into an untapped market.

Now that I've been doing this for 10 years, there's a bazillion different writing channels out there. So for nonfiction writers, I wouldn't necessarily recommend giving writing advice on YouTube, just because at this point it is a saturated market.

A lot of the people who give writing advice on YouTube are—or not a lot of the people—but there's a handful of people on YouTube who are bestsellers and award winners and things like that.

So if someone has their choice of where they're going to get writing advice on YouTube, they're probably going to go to someone with credentials versus someone who's newer and trying to get their name out there.

There are a ton of other options available for YouTube. What I like to tell writers is think about your target audience and what they're interested in. So for example, if you're writing romantasy like me, maybe talk about the art of romantasy.

Maybe talk about your favorite romantasy books, your favorite romantasy movies, your favorite romance tropes, your favorite fantasy tropes. You can bond with your audience over that sort of content.

There are people who do book reviews on YouTube, it's known as BookTube.

That's very popular, and you are welcome to do that.

My only warning I would give is that if you are a public reviewer, when it comes time to release your own book, just take into consideration that people are going to judge your work harsher than they would have otherwise because you're a book reviewer.

Since you're out there giving “professional opinions” about other books, people are going to be like, okay, well, they have strong opinions about other books, I'm going to have strong opinions about theirs. So just something to take into consideration.

More than anything, I would tap into your target audience and what they're interested in. That's what a lot of writers on YouTube do. If they're writing sci fi, they will talk about sci fi on their channel.

They'll talk about the newest sci fi movie, and they'll talk about the tropes utilized and the writing style of it. Fellow sci fi geeks will watch and be like, wow, this is really, really interesting. Then once that YouTuber is like, “Hey, I've got a book. Check it out,” you've attracted the appropriate audience to then purchase that book.

Joanna: Well, let's talk about the trend of short form video. So obviously, TikTok and BookTok is the big thing right now. Instagram reels and YouTube shorts have appeared to sort of try and capture that similar vibe.

Do you do the short form videos? How has video changed?

Jenna: What I do is I repurpose my YouTube content. I will take videos that I posted on YouTube and cut them down into little one-minute segments and share them to TikTok. TikTok isn't my favorite platform, just because I prefer longer form videos.

So for me, it's like, oh, gosh, I've got to make this quick little 15 second video. It's not my platform that I use. I do have TikTok, but I usually use it to repurpose my content or to talk about my books.

There are some writers who are thriving on TikTok, and then there are some who are like, oh, I just can't do this. So just take into consideration that there are other options available.

There are entire video essays on YouTube that have millions of views. So just because the short form content is popular, like if you're into that, definitely milk that for what it's worth, but if you're not so much into it, YouTube is still doing really, really well.

Like I said, there are people who make hour long video essays on YouTube that are absolutely killing it. So I think short form gives people greater options of what they can do in terms of content, especially because making a 15-second video is obviously going to be significantly less time consuming than even a 15-minute YouTube video.

So it definitely gives people greater options, but I don't feel like you have to be forced into just going the short form way. There's still a lot of long form content available for people.

Joanna: I think about YouTube a bit like I think about this podcast, which is it's more content marketing, and like for you as well, part of the business. Whereas I see short form video and social media as just marketing, whereas they're not necessarily content marketing.

So people listening here and watching your channel, it is content. I mean, that content can be a short story or it can be whatever else with the fiction side.

I feel like what we make with these longer forms stick around longer.

People can find things years later. Whereas TikTok and the short form videos are almost designed to disappear.

Jenna: Exactly. I mean, I had a TikTok blow up and get over 2 million views, but it didn't get me book sales. I mean, I'm sure maybe it got me a handful, but with the YouTube videos, every time I release a video I get a spike in book sales.

So that's not to say that TikTok can't be used to help you sell books. It's just the idea that I have videos that are seven years old that are still selling books for me, whereas that TikTok has just faded into the distance. So I definitely think content marketing absolutely has its place and its value.

Joanna: Yes, and this is why authors need some kind of strategy because with the huge number of splintered services now, if you tried to do everything all the time, that's when people just give up. I mean, you have to choose.

It's interesting, like you said you got in early on the YouTube writing stuff. I was one of the very first podcasts in the writing space, me and like Grammar Girl and Writing Excuses. There were just a few of us in those early days. Again, similar, it's very crowded now.

I wouldn't put people off entirely from trying to start something new, it's just very, very hard to kind of breakthrough. You kind of have to go super, super niche. Can I just ask about some other types of videos?

So one of the things that many authors are doing for the ad revenue is putting whole audiobooks on YouTube. What do you think about that?

Jenna: I think if it works for them, that's fantastic. It wouldn't be the best option for me because my audiobooks, just selling them on Audible and Amazon, are just killing it. So for me, it would be a decrease in revenue if I were to do it that way.

However, the way I see it is that it's all about whatever works for that individual person. I know some people who are putting their audiobooks on YouTube because of the ad revenue, and they're making money that way.

I know some people who are doing it solely because their platform is really small. They're hoping that if I give this book away, essentially for free, I will attract an audience. When it comes to business experimentation, I'm all about seeing what works, seeing what doesn't, and not being afraid to experiment.

For example, if they were to put their audiobook on YouTube, and they didn't make a lot of money off of it, I don't really see that as a failure. I see that as a like a learning experience. It's like, okay, well, now I know that I won't do that again. What's the next step?

So I'm all for people doing that. I don't think it would work for me. I think anything you could do to try to experiment within the industry and try to increase your revenue somehow, I'm like, so long as it's ethical, go for it and try it out.

Joanna: Okay, well, something that was popular over a decade ago when I first started out was the book trailer. What's interesting is it used to cost us so much money to do a book trailer.

Obviously, now the tools are much, much better in terms of AI images, and AI for marketing, and you can find licensed music for cheap, and all of this. I've started to see book trailers on social media because a 30-second video or a 10-second video can be quite interesting.

So what do you think around the book trailer type video, where it's not the author, it is the story or the hook?

Jenna: I think, and I don't know if they'd necessarily count as book trailers, but I see reels all the time on Instagram, and then I see TikToks, obviously, where it's like beautiful imagery, character artwork, and then quotes from the book with music. I've made those myself. They're really easy to make.

It's one of those things where if you could make one of those in less than a half hour, you might as well give it a shot and throw it out there and see how it works. I know a lot of authors who that's how they make their book sales is they make those beautiful little trailers, and they just post them constantly.

Sometimes they'll boost them online, they'll put some ad revenue behind it, and that's how they're able to support themselves as an author. Especially, like right now, the writing industry has evolved so much, and —

Social media, as annoying as it can be, social media is the reason that a lot of us are now able to do writing full time.

So this is another situation where I'm like, go for it! Make the little book trailer. You can do it easily on Canva, and that's available pretty much for everyone. I know people who their entire careers revolve around just making these cute little videos with character art.

There are wonderful character artists that you could hire to create entire elaborate scenes from your book, and it's very affordable. I say go for it. Like I said, I've done it myself.

Joanna: So you mentioned Canva, which I also use. It is fantastic.

What are some of the other tools that you use as part of your YouTube side of things for making videos?

Jenna: Well, I'm at this point in my career now where I have a video editing team. So I now get to outsource those tasks, thankfully, because that was the least fun part of YouTube.

Before then, I would edit my videos using iMovie as well as Final Cut Pro. iMovie is free, available to anyone with a Mac. You don't need the fancy tools in order to edit your YouTube content. iMovie works just fine.

I would use Final Cut Pro, for example, for book trailers that I would post to YouTube, as well as some of the fancier overlays and imagery and things like that. That's what I would use Final Cut Pro for.

I have a screen so that I can sort of watch myself while I'm filming and make sure I look okay. I obviously have the camera. I have a ring light and then two spotlights. Then, of course, I have the onstage podcast microphone. A lot of equipment, basically.

My studio is just filled with lights and cameras and all that good stuff. A lot of people hear this and think that if they're going on to YouTube, they need to immediately have these items.

What I started with was natural light from my window, a good microphone, and I used the camera on my laptop.

So just understand that. I personally wouldn't recommend, if you are getting into YouTube specifically, investing a whole lot of money at the start because some people try out YouTube, and after six months, they're like, “I hate this. I don't want to do this. This is not for me.”

What a shame it would be if you spent thousands of dollars on a YouTube setup that you don't want to use anymore. So if you're going to invest in anything, I would recommend investing in a good microphone, but you can get a good microphone for a really good price.

So there's nothing wrong with natural light and using your iPhone camera to get started.

Joanna: Yes, although if you're going to use an iPhone camera, put it on a stand, don't hold it.

Jenna: Yes, exactly.

Joanna: Or people will feel sick.

Jenna: Yes.

Joanna: So both you and I have been doing these various parts of our business for quite a few years now, and I wondered if you're thinking about reinvention. I hit my 15 years just before Christmas, and this podcast has been going since 2009.

So I started to feel like there are new voices around, there are different ways of doing things, and I'm very interested in reinvention at the moment. Although I'm kind of calling it a very slow pivot reinvention because I'm still enjoying myself. What do you think as someone who's been doing YouTube for so long as well?

What are your thoughts on what's coming next for you? Do you have any plans for new series? What's next for Jenna?

Jenna: Absolutely, this is actually something that I've been thinking about a lot lately, especially because I'm at my 10-year mark with YouTube, and my family recently went through a medical crisis, and we're on the other end of it, and things are so much better.

Those sorts of things make you reevaluate your life. It's like, what's working? What maybe is something that I kind of want to leave in the past?

So I'm already in the process of tweaking my YouTube channel. I'm making shorter videos that that are a little bit easier for me to digest and produce. That way, I can put a lot more focus on my writing.

In the past, sometimes there would be so much YouTube stuff going on that it would eclipse my writing time. Then it defeats the purpose. I'm doing YouTube to support my writing, not to eclipse my writing.

I mentioned earlier that I am in the process of segueing into being a hybrid author. I can't talk about the specifics quite yet, but that's definitely a new venture that I'm looking into that has been very exciting.

So that's part of the reinvention is now I will be both independently and traditionally published, which is really fun for me. Also, I'm still finishing up The Savior's Series. I'm almost done with a third book, and then I will get started on the fourth book.

I would like to venture into books with a little bit less violence. So I was thinking about dabbling in rom coms and things that are a bit fluffier and on the cute side. I have a whole bunch of books that I would like to produce eventually.

Right now, I'm just focusing on one step at a time, which is finishing up contracts on the hybrid side of things, as well as tweaking my YouTube channel, and finishing up the two writing projects that I'm currently working on.

Joanna: Fantastic.

Where can people find you, and your books, and everything you do online?

Jenna: Awesome. Well, people can find me on YouTube at YouTube.com/JennaMoreci. That's J-E-N-N-A-M-O-R-E-C-I.

They can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, all of those places, @JennaMoreci. I keep it pretty standard so I'm easy to find. The only one that's different is Facebook, which is AuthorJennaMoreci.

My books are available at all major retailers. So you can find them on Amazon. You can find them at Barnes and Noble. You can find them all over the place.

Right now the books that are available are The Savior's Champion, The Savior's Sister, and Shut Up and Write the Book. The Savior's Army and then another secret project is on its way.

Joanna: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for your time, Jenna. That was great.

Jenna: Thank you. It was an absolute pleasure.

The post Outlining Tips And Video Marketing On YouTube With Jenna Moreci first appeared on The Creative Penn.

]]> How can you outline a story based on a ‘thought dump' and interweave genre tropes you love to create a successful book? How can you use video marketing to reach more readers, even if you are an introvert? Jenna Moreci gives her tips. In the intro, How can you outline a story based on a ‘thought dump' and interweave genre tropes you love to create a successful book? How can you use video marketing to reach more readers, even if you are an introvert? Jenna Moreci gives her tips.



In the intro, my new ProWritingAid tutorial; Embracing change and starting over [Wish I'd Known Then Podcast]; OpenAI released ChatGPT 4o; Using 4o as a tutor [Khan Academy]; Claude 3 now in Europe; Google IO announcements including Search impact [The Verge; My episode on impact of generative search; Hard Fork Podcast; Platformer]; Spear of Destiny Kickstarter, and my deadlift PB.






Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Jenna Moreci is the bestselling author of dark fantasy romance, The Savior's Series, and books for authors including Shut Up and Write the Book: A Step-by-Step Guide to Crafting Your Novel From Plan to Print. She's also a YouTuber at Writing with Jenna Moreci, with over 300,000 subscribers.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Structuring and outlining — utilizing the “thought dump”



* The planning process for including tropes in your book



* How long should an outline be?



* Conquering fears and distractions to get words on the page



* Researching publishing options as a first time author



* Getting comfortable in front of the camera through trial and error

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:04:01 How Writing Work For Hire Books Led To Becoming An Indie Author With Aubre Andrus https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/13/how-writing-work-for-hire-books-led-to-becoming-an-indie-author-with-aubre-andrus/ Mon, 13 May 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36252 <p>How can you blend ‘work for hire', ghostwriting, and being an indie author into a successful hybrid career writing books for children? Aubre Andrus gives her tips. In the intro, Countdown Pages on FindawayVoices by Spotify; the impact of AI narrated audiobooks on Audible [Bloomberg]; Ideas for short fiction anthologies and Kevin J. Anderson's Kickstarter; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/13/how-writing-work-for-hire-books-led-to-becoming-an-indie-author-with-aubre-andrus/">How Writing Work For Hire Books Led To Becoming An Indie Author With Aubre Andrus</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you blend ‘work for hire', ghostwriting, and being an indie author into a successful hybrid career writing books for children? Aubre Andrus gives her tips. In the intro, Countdown Pages on FindawayVoices by Spotify; the impact of AI narrated au... How can you blend ‘work for hire', ghostwriting, and being an indie author into a successful hybrid career writing books for children? Aubre Andrus gives her tips.



In the intro, Countdown Pages on FindawayVoices by Spotify; the impact of AI narrated audiobooks on Audible [Bloomberg]; Ideas for short fiction anthologies and Kevin J. Anderson's Kickstarter; Penguin Random House launches internal ChatGPT tool for employees [Publishers Lunch]; 2024 is the year AI at work gets real [Microsoft].



Plus, reasons for the new theme music, licensed from AudioJungle for 10m downloads (the podcast is up to 9.7 million with the old tune); and planning for my Kickstarter launch for Spear of Destiny.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Aubre Andrus is an award-winning children's author with more than 50 books, as well as being a ghostwriter and former American Girl magazine editor. Her books, The Look Up Series, feature women in STEM careers.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The background of the American Girl brand



* Pros and cons of work for hire and ghostwriting



* Work for hire best practices to make it worth the money



* Differences in work for hire contracts and payment models



* How to seek out work for hire projects



* Using lessons learned from past projects in your own series



* Creative control over content and marketing a self-published author



* Marketing self-published children's books




You can find Aubre at AubreAndrus.com.



Transcript of Interview with Aubre Andrus



Joanna: Aubre Andrus is an award-winning children's author with more than 50 books,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:09:09
Using Tools To Automate Your Author Business with Chelle Honiker https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/06/using-tools-to-automate-your-author-business-with-chelle-honiker/ Mon, 06 May 2024 06:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36255 <p>How can you use automation and tools to help you streamline your creative and business processes so you can get back to the writing? Chelle Honiker gives some mindset and practical tips. In the intro, IBPA guide to publishing models; We need to talk about independence [Self Publishing Advice article; my podcast episode with Orna […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/05/06/using-tools-to-automate-your-author-business-with-chelle-honiker/">Using Tools To Automate Your Author Business with Chelle Honiker</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you use automation and tools to help you streamline your creative and business processes so you can get back to the writing? Chelle Honiker gives some mindset and practical tips. In the intro, IBPA guide to publishing models; We need to talk ab... How can you use automation and tools to help you streamline your creative and business processes so you can get back to the writing? Chelle Honiker gives some mindset and practical tips.



In the intro, IBPA guide to publishing models; We need to talk about independence [Self Publishing Advice article; my podcast episode with Orna Ross]; The Financial Times signs a partnership deal with OpenAI [FT]; The Big Leap — Gay Hendricks; AI Tools on Brave New Bookshelf; Spear of Destiny; Stone Hunters by Rod Penn;






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Chelle Honiker is the co-founder and publisher of Indie Author Magazine, Indie Author Training, Indie Author Tools, and Direct2Readers.com. She's also an author, speaker, podcaster, and program manager at the Author Nation Conference.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Finding a community with other indie authors



* Blocks that might stop authors from using technology effectively



* How to figure out which tools work best for your creative process and author business



* Moving into new and reinvented processes as technology changes



* Using Zapier to automate your author business



* When to use a tool vs. when to outsource a task



* What to expect in the upcoming Author Nation Conference




You can find Chelle at ChelleHoniker.com, IndieAuthorMagazine.com, IndieAuthorTraining.com, and https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36245 <p>How can you connect to readers in a way that is sustainable for you and effective at selling books? How can you choose the best platform when there are so many options? Dan Blank gives his recommendations. In the intro, TikTok ban signed into law in the USA [The Verge]; No One Buys Books [Elle Griffin]; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/29/human-centered-book-marketing-with-dan-blank/">Human-Centered Book Marketing With Dan Blank</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you connect to readers in a way that is sustainable for you and effective at selling books? How can you choose the best platform when there are so many options? Dan Blank gives his recommendations. In the intro, How can you connect to readers in a way that is sustainable for you and effective at selling books? How can you choose the best platform when there are so many options? Dan Blank gives his recommendations.



In the intro, TikTok ban signed into law in the USA [
The Verge]; No One Buys Books [Elle Griffin]; Please stop bashing book publishing [Publishing Confidential]; The Hotsheet; Books sell, but book doesn't [Seth Godin]. Plus, my new podcast logo; Spear of Destiny finishing energy, artist's date at Salisbury Cathedral.






Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Dan Blank helps authors develop a human-centered approach to marketing through his book, Be the Gateway: A Practical Guide to Sharing Your Creative Work and Engaging an Audience, as well as his podcast, The Creative Shift, and his coaching and consultancy services at WeGrowMedia.com.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Learning how to feel good about sharing and marketing



* Keeping the human connection while scaling our reach



* Deciding what platform is best for your style of marketing



* Differences between the “daily work” and launch marketing



* Marketing later books in a series



* Advantages of Substack to get your newsletter discovered



* Balancing social engagement with the work of writing books




You can find Dan at WeGrowMedia.com and DanBlank.Substack.com.



Transcript of Interview with Dan Blank



Joanna: Dan Blank helps authors develop a human-centered approach to marketing through his book, Be the Gateway: A Practical Guide to Sharing Your Creative Work and Engaging an Audience, as well as his podcast, The Creative Shift, and his coaching and consultancy services at WeGrowMedia.com. Welcome back to the show, Dan.



Dan: Thank you for having me back. It's always such a pleasure.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:06:14
The Midlist Indie Author With T. Thorn Coyle https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/22/the-midlist-indie-author-with-t-thorn-coyle/ Mon, 22 Apr 2024 06:22:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36228 <p>How can you build a creative, sustainable career as a ‘mid-list' indie author? How can you design a business that works for you and your books over the long term? T. Thorn Coyle explains more in this episode. In the intro, BookVault bespoke printing options; Harper Collins partners with Eleven Labs for AI-narrated non-English audiobooks […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/22/the-midlist-indie-author-with-t-thorn-coyle/">The Midlist Indie Author With T. Thorn Coyle</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you build a creative, sustainable career as a ‘mid-list' indie author? How can you design a business that works for you and your books over the long term? T. Thorn Coyle explains more in this episode. In the intro, How can you build a creative, sustainable career as a ‘mid-list' indie author? How can you design a business that works for you and your books over the long term? T. Thorn Coyle explains more in this episode.



In the intro, BookVault bespoke printing options; Harper Collins partners with Eleven Labs for AI-narrated non-English audiobooks [Publishing Perspectives]; AI Publishing Formula Podcast; Brave New Bookshelf Podcast; “I’m not worried about AI, because I got my mojo working.” Stephen King;






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






T. Thorn Coyle is the author of paranormal mystery, urban fantasy, alt history, epic fantasy, as well as nonfiction around magical practice. Their latest book is The Midlist Indie Author Mindset.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* What does it mean to be a mid-list author?



* How being weird can help you connect as more human



* Finding your sense of weird and letting it shine in your work



* Making marketing about connection and finding what works for you



* Marketing for Kickstarter in a short-term promotional window



* Tips for managing multiple Kickstarters per year



* Keeping readers engaged with your newsletter and social media



* Creating a tagline that portrays the message of your author business




You can find Thorn at ThornCoyle.com, and the Kickstarter for The Midlist Indie Author Mindset here.



Transcript of Interview with Thorn Coyle



Joanna: T. Thorn Coyle is the author of paranormal mystery, urban fantasy, alt history, epic fantasy,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 56:50
Generative AI Impact On Creativity And Business In the Music Industry With Tristra Newyear Yeager https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/15/generative-ai-impact-on-creativity-and-business-in-the-music-industry-with-tristra-newyear-yeager/ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 06:21:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36227 <p>What can authors learn from the adoption of AI into the music industry? What are some of the ways musicians are making money in the fractured creator economy? Tristra Newyear Yeager gives her thoughts in this interview. In the intro, Draft2Digital announced a retail distribution agreement with Fable [D2D]; Kobo launches a new color e-reader […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/15/generative-ai-impact-on-creativity-and-business-in-the-music-industry-with-tristra-newyear-yeager/">Generative AI Impact On Creativity And Business In the Music Industry With Tristra Newyear Yeager</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What can authors learn from the adoption of AI into the music industry? What are some of the ways musicians are making money in the fractured creator economy? Tristra Newyear Yeager gives her thoughts in this interview. In the intro, What can authors learn from the adoption of AI into the music industry? What are some of the ways musicians are making money in the fractured creator economy? Tristra Newyear Yeager gives her thoughts in this interview.



In the intro, Draft2Digital announced a retail distribution agreement with Fable [D2D]; Kobo launches a new color e-reader [Rakuten Kobo]; Ultimate guide to subscription models [Self-Publishing Advice]; Independence and interdependence [Self-Publishing Advice]; Becca Syme on getting unstuck [Ink in Your Veins].



Plus, Amazon's new AI board member, Andrew Ng [TechCrunch]; AI for Everyone free course; SEO is Dead [Marketing Against the Grain]; My episode on Generative AI Search for Book Discoverability; Yes, Colossal is real, and Spear of Destiny.







This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.



This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 






Tristra Newyear Yeager is the Chief Strategy Officer for Rock Paper Scissors, which provides PR for music innovators. She's also the author of historical fantasy and scientific romance, and the co-host of the Music Tectonics Podcast, which goes beneath the surface of music and technology.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The current state of AI for musicians — is Suno the ChatGPT for musicians?]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:07:00
Facing Fears In Writing And Life With Rachael Herron https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/08/facing-fears-in-writing-and-life-with-rachael-herron/ Mon, 08 Apr 2024 06:39:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36235 <p>How can you overcome your fears and make a life change towards your dreams? Or tackle the fears that stop you from writing and publishing your book? Rachael Herron talks about creating despite the fear, and getting unstuck in this interview. In the intro, Blackberry movie and IP questions; The Copyright Handbook by Steven Fishman; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/08/facing-fears-in-writing-and-life-with-rachael-herron/">Facing Fears In Writing And Life With Rachael Herron</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you overcome your fears and make a life change towards your dreams? Or tackle the fears that stop you from writing and publishing your book? Rachael Herron talks about creating despite the fear, and getting unstuck in this interview. How can you overcome your fears and make a life change towards your dreams? Or tackle the fears that stop you from writing and publishing your book? Rachael Herron talks about creating despite the fear, and getting unstuck in this interview.



In the intro, Blackberry movie and IP questions; The Copyright Handbook by Steven Fishman; Co-Intelligence: Living and Working With AI by Ethan Mollick; London Screenwriters Festival; Lessons from my screenwriting course (2018); Catacomb on my store, and on other stores; Spear of Destiny Kickstarter.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.



You can also Join my community and support the show at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn.






Rachael Herron is the internationally bestselling author of more than two dozen books, including thrillers, feminist romance, memoir, and nonfiction about writing. She's the host of the Ink in Your Veins podcast, and her latest book is Unstuck: An Audacious Hunt for Home and Happiness.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Tackling fear of the unknown when leaving your job, or making a big life change, or becoming a full-time author, based on Eight lessons learned from eight years as a full-time author.



* Overcoming the fear of the unknown when writing a book and you don't know the outcome



* The writing process when writing memoir vs. fiction



* Fear of judgement when writing memoir



* Writing as flawed and real humans that readers can relate to



* Analogue physical IRL experiences in the digital age



* Different fears that come with launching a Kickstarter




You can find Rachael at RachaelHerron.com and her Kickstarter at RachaelH...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:07:32
Different Ways To Market Your Book With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/01/different-ways-to-market-your-book-with-joanna-penn/ Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:32:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36229 <p>There are many options for book marketing, so how do you choose the right ones for you? I give my thoughts on the different polarities on the marketing scale to help you figure out what might work for your book, your stage on the author journey, and your lifestyle. In the intro, Storybundle for writers; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/04/01/different-ways-to-market-your-book-with-joanna-penn/">Different Ways To Market Your Book With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> There are many options for book marketing, so how do you choose the right ones for you? I give my thoughts on the different polarities on the marketing scale to help you figure out what might work for your book, your stage on the author journey, There are many options for book marketing, so how do you choose the right ones for you? I give my thoughts on the different polarities on the marketing scale to help you figure out what might work for your book, your stage on the author journey, and your lifestyle.



In the intro,
Storybundle for writers; Seth Godin on Tim Ferriss; Amazon's investment in Anthropic; Claude 3 direct or Poe.com; Claude prompt library; join me and Joseph Michael for a prompt webinar, 4 April, register here; plus, Spear of Destiny.






Today's show is sponsored by my patrons! Join my community and get access to extra videos on writing craft, author business, AI and behind the scenes info, plus an extra Q&A show a month where I answer Patron questions. It's about the same as a black coffee a month! Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of thriller, dark fantasy, and memoir as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 




* Traditional versus indie publishing



* Short term versus long term



* Income versus brand building



* Paid versus free



* The book versus you as the author



* Stand-alone versus series



* Exclusive versus wide publishing



* Publish fast versus publish slowly



* Write to market versus write first, market later



* Online versus offline. Global versus local



* Introvert versus extrovert



* Digital versus physical



* Data-focused versus intuitive marketing



* Fiction versus non-fiction



* Doing your own marketing versus hiring professionals




Let me know what you think — leave a comment here or message me on X @thecreativepenn



This chapter is from my Author Blueprint, available as a free ebook at TheCreativePenn.com/blueprint or in https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36181 <p>What mindset shift do you need if you want to sell direct? How can you use Meta and AI tools to amplify your marketing? Matt Holmes gives his tips as well as insights from running my ads for my store, JFPennBooks.com. In the intro, how to sell more books at live events [BookBub]; Future of […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/25/tips-for-selling-and-marketing-direct-using-meta-ads-with-matthew-j-holmes/">Tips For Selling And Marketing Direct Using Meta Ads With Matthew J Holmes</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What mindset shift do you need if you want to sell direct? How can you use Meta and AI tools to amplify your marketing? Matt Holmes gives his tips as well as insights from running my ads for my store, JFPennBooks.com. In the intro, What mindset shift do you need if you want to sell direct? How can you use Meta and AI tools to amplify your marketing? Matt Holmes gives his tips as well as insights from running my ads for my store, JFPennBooks.com.



In the intro, how to sell more books at live events [BookBub]; Future of publishing and LBF, includes video of our live panel [Orna Ross on SelfPublishingAdvice]; 5 Trends we learned at the Future of Publishing [Kickstart Your Book Sales]; Author business and Author Nation [Wish I'd Known Then]; Amazon de-lists my Companion workbooks, but you can buy the spiral-bound versions and bundles on my store, CreativePennBooks.com.



Plus, Nvidia's Earth2 digital twin development platform for climate science; Moonshots and Mindsets Podcast with Peter Diamandis; Sam Altman on GPT-5 [Lex Fridman] ; Using Claude for Shopify mass upload template [M.C.A. Hogarth]; Plus, join me and Joseph Michael for our AI webinar, 4 April, 8pm UK — register here to join us live or get the replay.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna







Matthew J. Holmes is a book marketing and direct sales specialist and the business partner of fantasy author, Lori Holmes. Matt has a great newsletter and courses for authors around Facebook ads and direct sales.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* A mindset shift when switching from KU to direct sales



* Control of your cash flow and customer base with direct sales



* Email marketing strategies



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:07:17 Insights On The Enneagram And Sustain Your Author Career With Claire Taylor https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/18/insights-on-the-enneagram-and-sustain-your-author-career-with-claire-taylor/ Mon, 18 Mar 2024 07:32:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36126 <p>How can you use insights from the Enneagram to help you with a sustainable author career? How can you get past your blocks and move towards success, whatever that means for you? Claire Taylor provides her insights. In the intro, will TikTok be banned in the USA, and how will this impact authors and publishing? […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/18/insights-on-the-enneagram-and-sustain-your-author-career-with-claire-taylor/">Insights On The Enneagram And Sustain Your Author Career With Claire Taylor</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you use insights from the Enneagram to help you with a sustainable author career? How can you get past your blocks and move towards success, whatever that means for you? Claire Taylor provides her insights. In the intro, How can you use insights from the Enneagram to help you with a sustainable author career? How can you get past your blocks and move towards success, whatever that means for you? Claire Taylor provides her insights.



In the intro, will TikTok be banned in the USA, and how will this impact authors and publishing? [TechCrunch; Kathleen Schmidt]; Hugh Howey on the Tim Ferriss show; I, Cyborg: Using Co-Intelligence [Ethan Mollick]; Using AI in award-winning writing [Smithsonian Mag; Editor and Publisher];



Plus, I'm now an award-winning author for Pilgrimage! [Pics on Instagram, Buy the book from me, or on other stores]; Spear of Destiny, Unstuck with Rachael Herron; I'm interviewed on the Casual Author Podcast, and Cops and Writers.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.






Claire Taylor writes comedy fiction, science fiction, paranormal cozy mystery, and serial killer crime, with more than 40 books under various pen names. She also teaches authors through courses, consulting, and her books for writers, which include Reclaim Your Author Career, and her new book, Sustain Your Author Career.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:04:27
Dealing With Change And How To Build Resilience As An Author With Becca Syme https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/11/dealing-with-change-and-how-to-build-resilience-as-an-author-with-becca-syme/ Mon, 11 Mar 2024 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36182 <p>There are more options for publishing and reaching readers than ever before, and the indie author business models are splintering and diverging, so how do we know which path to follow? How do we deal with the changes due to generative AI, and how do we manage the grief and anxiety about these shifts? Becca […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/11/dealing-with-change-and-how-to-build-resilience-as-an-author-with-becca-syme/">Dealing With Change And How To Build Resilience As An Author With Becca Syme</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> There are more options for publishing and reaching readers than ever before, and the indie author business models are splintering and diverging, so how do we know which path to follow? How do we deal with the changes due to generative AI, There are more options for publishing and reaching readers than ever before, and the indie author business models are splintering and diverging, so how do we know which path to follow?



How do we deal with the changes due to generative AI, and how do we manage the grief and anxiety about these shifts? Becca Syme gives her perspective.



In the intro, Kobo Plus launches in Ireland and South Africa [KWL]; Authors Equity [Publishing Perspectives]; Selling direct insights [Kindlepreneur]; Claude 3 [Anthropic]; Spear of Destiny.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 







Becca Syme is an author, coach, and creator of The Better-Faster Academy. She is a USA Today bestselling author of small-town romance and cozy mystery, and also writes the ‘Dear Writer' series of non-fiction books.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Saturation causing a shift in the indie author business model



* The importance of having certainty in your own process



* An ego shift when selling direct



* Deciding on a business path amid uncertainty



* Choosing your ‘hard'



* Adapting the vision of your future in an ever-changing industry



* Finding readers in an evolving publishing industry




You can find Becca at BetterFasterAcademy.com.



Transcript of Interview with Becca Syme



Joanna: Becca Syme is an author, coach, and creator of The Better-Faster Academy. She is a USA Today bestselling author of small-town romance and cozy mystery, and also writes the ‘Dear Writer' series of non-fiction books. So welcome back to the show, Becca.



Becca: Thank you for having me, again. I love being here.



Joanna: Now, you've been on the show a few times. So we're just going to jump into the topics today, as we've got so much to talk about now.



I've really wanted to talk to you about some of the things I'm seeing in the community right now. You're so wise,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:00:04
How To Create Beautiful Print Books And Sell Direct With Alex Smith From Bookvault https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/04/how-to-create-beautiful-print-books-and-sell-direct-with-alex-smith-from-bookvault/ Mon, 04 Mar 2024 07:32:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36125 <p>How can you create more beautiful print books — and make more money with your products by selling direct? Alex Smith explains how BookVault can help with various options as well as helpful resources. In the intro, audiobooks and AI [Frankfurt Bookmesse]; Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain, and Virtual Worlds by Joanna Penn; Google's woke AI Gemini […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/03/04/how-to-create-beautiful-print-books-and-sell-direct-with-alex-smith-from-bookvault/">How To Create Beautiful Print Books And Sell Direct With Alex Smith From Bookvault</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you create more beautiful print books — and make more money with your products by selling direct? Alex Smith explains how BookVault can help with various options as well as helpful resources. In the intro, How can you create more beautiful print books — and make more money with your products by selling direct? Alex Smith explains how BookVault can help with various options as well as helpful resources.



In the intro, audiobooks and AI [Frankfurt Bookmesse]; Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain, and Virtual Worlds by Joanna Penn; Google's woke AI Gemini [The Verge]; AI solving humanity's hardest problems [NY Times]; Demis Hassabis on Hard Fork [NY Times]; Finding my voice in the AI wars [Talena Winters].



Plus, Author Blueprint (2024) is now in print (or get the ebook here); Spear of Destiny prelaunch page.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Alex Smith is the technical lead of Bookvault.app, the independent printer that I use for the books I sell direct on Shopify, as well as for my Kickstarters.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Services that Bookvault offers authors in order to make beautiful books and make more money selling direct



* Common issues to avoid when uploading files



* Special edition books—ribbons, sprayed edges, foiling options, and more



* Options for photo books or art books



* Working with Bookvault to create and fulfill a Kickstarter campaign



* How to get more help if you need it



* How the payment and fulfillment process works



* Connecting Bookvault to your direct online store




Find out more about Alex Smith and Bookvault at https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35907 <p>How can you write a memoir that is emotionally honest and revealing enough for readers to care, and cope with the inevitable fear of judgment that evokes? How can you write about real places and people in memoir? Why is editing a memoir so challenging and what should you keep in mind around publishing and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/26/tips-on-writing-memoir-with-j-f-penn/">Tips On Writing Memoir With J.F. Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you write a memoir that is emotionally honest and revealing enough for readers to care, and cope with the inevitable fear of judgment that evokes? How can you write about real places and people in memoir? How can you write a memoir that is emotionally honest and revealing enough for readers to care, and cope with the inevitable fear of judgment that evokes? How can you write about real places and people in memoir?



Why is editing a memoir so challenging and what should you keep in mind around publishing and marketing choices? J.F. Penn gives her tips after writing her midlife solo travel memoir,
Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways.



Thanks to everyone who backed my Kickstarter for Pilgrimage, and to my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn, who help fund the extra time it takes to produce these solo episodes.







J.F. Penn is the Award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, and travel memoir. Jo lives in Bath, England with her husband and two British short-hair cats, and enjoys a nice G&T.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* What kind of book do you want to write?



* The particular challenge of memoir



* Vulnerability and emotional honesty



* Capture your experience through writing and photos



* Writing about real people and places



* Character arc



* Truth (capital T) vs truth (small t)



* Specific sensory detail



* The first draft and killing your darlings



* Publishing choices and formats



* Marketing. Finding an audience for a different type of book




You can buy Pilgrimage in all the usual formats from my store, JFPennBooks.com as well as the special hardback and paperback with photos from the trips. It’s also on all the usual stores in all the usual formats, or order from your library or local bookstore. 



Jo Frances Penn with Pilgrimage


If you want to read about the day-by-day pilgrimages, and see photos from the routes — The Pilgrims Way and the St Cuthbert’s Way in the UK, and the Camino de Santiago Portuguese Coastal — go tohttps://www.booksandtravel.page/pilgrimage-resources/ for all the links to my trips, gear list, questions to think about, and interviews.



You can find my lessons learned from the campaign and more tips for Kickstarter at https://www.thecreativepenn.com/selldirectresources/ 



If you want more interviews on writing memoir and book recommendations, go to https://www.thecreativepenn.com/writing-memoir/ 



Introduction


]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:05:40
The Hard Joy Of Writing With Sharon Fagan McDermott and M.C. Benner Dixon https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/19/the-hard-joy-of-writing-with-sharon-fagan-mcdermott-and-m-c-benner-dixon/ Mon, 19 Feb 2024 07:31:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36124 <p>How can we focus on the joy of the writing process itself, rather than the outcome? How can we embrace the positive side of being jealous of the success of other writers? How can we deepen our writing with metaphor and sense of place? Co-authors of writing book, Millions of Suns, Sharon and Christine share […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/19/the-hard-joy-of-writing-with-sharon-fagan-mcdermott-and-m-c-benner-dixon/">The Hard Joy Of Writing With Sharon Fagan McDermott and M.C. Benner Dixon</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we focus on the joy of the writing process itself, rather than the outcome? How can we embrace the positive side of being jealous of the success of other writers? How can we deepen our writing with metaphor and sense of place? How can we focus on the joy of the writing process itself, rather than the outcome? How can we embrace the positive side of being jealous of the success of other writers? How can we deepen our writing with metaphor and sense of place? Co-authors of writing book, Millions of Suns, Sharon and Christine share their tips.



In the intro, Findaway Terms of Service; Why Kickstarter is the Most Creative Way to Launch Your Book [Self-Publishing Advice]; Sell direct resources; Why writing books is a career like no other [Roz Morris]; You are not what you used to be [Johnny B. Truant]; OpenAI's text to video tool, Sora; Google's Gemini model; the Vesuvius Challenge;



Plus, my updated Author Blueprint; Spear of Destiny; and Pilgrimage is an award finalist for the Selfies [BookBrunch];






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Sharon Fagan McDermott is an award-winning poet, musician, and a teacher of literature. M. C. Benner Dixon is an-award winning author, freelance editor, and writing coach. Together, they are the co-authors of Millions of Suns: On Writing and Life.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Finding play and joy in the work of writing



* How to find joy when writing alone



* Using metaphor to elevate your writing



* Bringing place alive on the page



* Reframing jealousy in a positive way



* The benefits and struggles of co-writing




You can find Sharon at https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36013 <p>How can you pick yourself, rather than wait for someone else to pick you? How can you take control of your independent career and bring your creative vision to life? Jeffrey Crane Graham talks about his experience as an indie filmmaker, with lots of tips for indie authors. In the intro, 6 Types of Submission […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/12/writing-and-producing-a-micro-budget-film-with-jeffrey-crane-graham/">Writing And Producing A Micro-Budget Film With Jeffrey Crane Graham</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you pick yourself, rather than wait for someone else to pick you? How can you take control of your independent career and bring your creative vision to life? Jeffrey Crane Graham talks about his experience as an indie filmmaker, How can you pick yourself, rather than wait for someone else to pick you? How can you take control of your independent career and bring your creative vision to life? Jeffrey Crane Graham talks about his experience as an indie filmmaker, with lots of tips for indie authors.



In the intro, 6 Types of Submission Comments BookBub Editors Love to See [
BookBub]; Author platform is not a requirement to sell your novel or children’s book [Jane Friedman]; Your Author Business Plan and/or Business for Authors 50% off with discount coupon PLAN on CreativePennBooks.com; Spear of Destiny; Ruby Roe rainbow foil hardcover Kickstarter; Updated Author Blueprint coming soon; I'm interviewed on writing memoir [QWERTY Podcast].






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.






Jeffrey Crane Graham is a writer, director, and podcast producer. He wrote and directed the multi-award-winning film Always, Lola, and has also written comedy shorts. He produces and co-hosts The Screenwriting Life podcast.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Choosing yourself, rather than waiting for someone to pick you



* The process of creating a micro-budget feature



* Writing screenplays that are “practically shootable”



* Tips for authors who want to get their books on screen



* Marketing a film in a crowded market



* How the film festival circuit works for indie filmmakers



* Possible uses of AI in the filmmaking process that are not the act of creation




You can find Jeffrey at JeffGrahamDigital.com. You can find Always Lola at AlwaysLolaFilm.com.



Transcript of Interview with Jeffrey Crane Graham



Joanna: Jeffrey Crane Graham is a writer, director, and podcast producer.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:05:42
Your Author Brand With Isabelle Knight https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/05/your-author-brand-with-isabelle-knight/ Mon, 05 Feb 2024 07:20:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36094 <p>How do you find the story behind all your stories? Who are you at the heart of your books? Isabelle Knight talks about the importance of author brand in an age of limitless content, and gives tips on how to discover yours. In the intro, 20 new miniature books added to Queen Mary’s Dollhouse [BBC]; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/02/05/your-author-brand-with-isabelle-knight/">Your Author Brand With Isabelle Knight</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How do you find the story behind all your stories? Who are you at the heart of your books? Isabelle Knight talks about the importance of author brand in an age of limitless content, and gives tips on how to discover yours. In the intro, How do you find the story behind all your stories? Who are you at the heart of your books? Isabelle Knight talks about the importance of author brand in an age of limitless content, and gives tips on how to discover yours.



In the intro, 20 new miniature books added to Queen Mary’s Dollhouse [BBC]; Amazon announced Rufus, a new generative AI-powered conversational shopping experience; How generative AI will impact book discoverability; Amazon AI Ready Initiative free AI training; NY Times is hiring for their own AI initiatives [The Verge]; “There’s nothing wrong with the tech, but it has to be legal and licensed.” [Hollywood Reporter]; Tools & Strategies you must use to survive the 2024 revolution [Marketing Against the Grain].



Plus, I recommend Forever Strong by Dr Gabrielle Lyon; my Kickstarter pre-launch page is up for Spear of Destiny; Vienna, Nuremberg, and Cologne: My Five days Research Trip notes and pictures.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna



You can also support the show and join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Isabelle Knight is a professional publicist, speaker and PR & brand mentor to authors and business founders. She is also adjunct professor in MA, PR & Advertising at the American International University of London.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Brand and it's importance in the age of AI



* Is human connection more important than content...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:00:26
How To Be Successful On Kickstarter With Paddy Finn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/29/how-to-be-successful-on-kickstarter-with-paddy-finn/ Mon, 29 Jan 2024 07:04:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36014 <p>What are the benefits — and the challenges — of crowdfunding on Kickstarter? How can you fund successfully, as well as make a profit with your campaign? Paddy Finn gives his tips. In the intro, you can find more selling direct resources here; Streaming due for a streamlining [FT]; Authors Guild explores AI licensing deal […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/29/how-to-be-successful-on-kickstarter-with-paddy-finn/">How To Be Successful On Kickstarter With Paddy Finn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the benefits — and the challenges — of crowdfunding on Kickstarter? How can you fund successfully, as well as make a profit with your campaign? Paddy Finn gives his tips. In the intro, you can find more selling direct resources here; Streaming... What are the benefits — and the challenges — of crowdfunding on Kickstarter? How can you fund successfully, as well as make a profit with your campaign? Paddy Finn gives his tips.



In the intro, you can find more selling direct resources here; Streaming due for a streamlining [FT]; Authors Guild explores AI licensing deal [Hollywood Reporter]; Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI on Bill Gates' podcast, Unconfuse Me; AI audio company ElevenLabs in funding deal [TechCrunch]. Plus, follow my book research trip for Spear of Destiny on Instagram @jfpennauthor or Facebook @jfpennauthor.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 







Paddy Finn is the author of science fiction and fantasy novels, the CEO of Penny Dragon Games and Starcane Press, and is a Kickstarter expert.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Harnessing the popularity of Dungeons and Dragons on Kickstarter



* Offering physical objects to accompany your book campaign



* Why are direct sales and Kickstarter taking off now?



* The importance of audience ownership



* Pre-launching your Kickstarter campaign



* Costing out your campaign to make it profitable



* Shipping tips, tools, and manufacturing recommendations



* How to plan a six-figure campaign




You can find Paddy at PaddyFinn.com, and his course at KickstarterUniversity.com.



Transcript of Interview with Paddy Finn



Joanna: Paddy Finn is the author of science fiction and fantasy novels, the CEO of Penny Dragon Games and Starcane Press, and is a Kickstarter expert. So welcome to the show, Paddy.



Paddy: It's awesome to be here, Jo. Thanks for having me.
]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:06:47
A Creative Approach To Generative AI In Book Cover Design With James Helps https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/26/a-creative-approach-to-generative-ai-in-book-cover-design-with-james-helps/ Fri, 26 Jan 2024 07:19:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=36015 <p>I really enjoyed this laid-back discussion around AI tools as part of the creative book cover design process with James Helps from Go On Write. We discuss how generative AI tools can help make more unique and interesting cover designs, and how designers can have a more imaginative time making them. This episode is supported […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/26/a-creative-approach-to-generative-ai-in-book-cover-design-with-james-helps/">A Creative Approach To Generative AI In Book Cover Design With James Helps</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> I really enjoyed this laid-back discussion around AI tools as part of the creative book cover design process with James Helps from Go On Write. We discuss how generative AI tools can help make more unique and interesting cover designs, I really enjoyed this laid-back discussion around AI tools as part of the creative book cover design process with James Helps from Go On Write. We discuss how generative AI tools can help make more unique and interesting cover designs, and how designers can have a more imaginative time making them.






This episode is supported by my Patreon community, who fund my future-focused thinking time. If you join the community, you get an extra solo Q&A show monthly, as well as behind-the-scenes videos on planning for the year ahead, AI and creative business, plus discounts, early access, and more. Join the community for the price of a coffee a month at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







James Helps is a book cover designer at GoOnWrite.com, offering pre-made covers and custom cover design. He also writes articles for authors about the impact of AI at his blog, HumbleNations.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* James' history with computers, AI, and art



* Various tools for AI-generated images and the rise of text to video



* Midjourney vs DALL-E and how being an artist makes Midjourney easier to use as you have the language to use it



* How James uses Midjourney as part of his creative ideation process with a client and how it gives him more scope for imaginative designs, and how it takes more time



* Is AI a threat to cover designers and/or authors? How our human creative drive and connection is our real differentiator.




You can find James at GoOnWrite.com, HumbleNations.wordpress.com, or JamesHelps.co.uk.



Transcript of Interview with James Helps



Joanna: James is a book cover designer at GoOnWrite.com, offering pre-made covers and custom cover design. He also writes articles for authors about the impact of AI at his blog, HumbleNations, which we're talking about today. So welcome to the show, James.



James: Hi there.



Joanna: Hello.



Tell us a bit more about your book cover design business and how you became interested in generative AI.



James: I guess the first thing I'd probably say is I don't really like the word business. It's more that I make covers for people that I like. They come in and chat to me, and I'm just a designer that really enjoys doing covers.



I guess when it comes down to the AI stuff, I got interested in that probably around two years ago when there was a lot of stuff in the air. There was like the DALL-E and Imagen that I was reading about quite a lot. I've always been sort of somebody who's looked at technology as a thing.



In my history, I did a computer science degree back in the early 90s. As a kid,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 38:15
Direct Sales And Merchandising For Authors With Alex Kava https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/22/direct-sales-and-merchandising-for-authors-with-alex-kava/ Mon, 22 Jan 2024 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35921 <p>What are the benefits and challenges of selling direct? How can you use limited edition merchandise to add more value to retailers and make more money on a launch? Alex Kava talks about her author business. In the intro, award-winning Japanese writer, Rie Kudan, used ChatGPT to write parts of her prize-winning novel and judges […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/22/direct-sales-and-merchandising-for-authors-with-alex-kava/">Direct Sales And Merchandising For Authors With Alex Kava</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the benefits and challenges of selling direct? How can you use limited edition merchandise to add more value to retailers and make more money on a launch? Alex Kava talks about her author business. In the intro, award-winning Japanese writer, What are the benefits and challenges of selling direct? How can you use limited edition merchandise to add more value to retailers and make more money on a launch? Alex Kava talks about her author business.



In the intro, award-winning Japanese writer, Rie Kudan, used ChatGPT to write parts of her prize-winning novel and judges lauded the work as ‘flawless.’ [The Telegraph]; Personal news about my pivot, the Blueprint rewrite, and cleaning up the backlist; plus, I'm on The Alignment Show.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital to get started.



This show is also sponsored by my community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn.






Alex Kava is the multi-award-winning New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author of the FBI profiler Maggie O'Dell series and K-9 handler Ryder Creed series, amongst other books.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The struggles that come with traditional publishing



* Becoming an indie author and taking back control



* Direct sales as part of the author business model



* Sourcing and selling quality merchandise



* Merchandise as an extension of the reader experience



* The technical side of selling personalized books and merchandise



* Building your newsletter and marketing your direct store




You can find Alex at AlexKava.com.



Transcript of Interview with Alex Kava



Joanna: Alex Kava is the multi-award-winning New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author of the FBI Profiler Maggie O'Dell series and K-9 Handler Ryder Creed series, amongst other books. So welcome to the show, Alex. 



Alex: Thanks, Jo. I'm so excited. Thank you for inviting me. 



Joanna: Oh, yes, well, we have lots to talk about. But first up– 



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and self-publishing.



Alex: Well, I've been in the business now for over 20 years. So I guess as a kid, I was like all the other authors, but for me, I never dreamed that you could actually make a living by writing up stories and writing books. 



Both my parents were children of Polish immigrants, and they instilled a very strong work ethic.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:05:18
Facing Fears, And Writing Unique Characters With Barbara Nickless https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/15/facing-fears-and-writing-unique-characters-with-barbara-nickless/ Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35920 <p>How can we move past our fears to write the books that mean the most to us? How can we write unique and compelling characters that keep readers coming back for more in a series? Barbara Nickless talks about mindset and writing craft in this wide-ranging interview. In the intro, Planning for a Creative 2024 […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/15/facing-fears-and-writing-unique-characters-with-barbara-nickless/">Facing Fears, And Writing Unique Characters With Barbara Nickless</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we move past our fears to write the books that mean the most to us? How can we write unique and compelling characters that keep readers coming back for more in a series? Barbara Nickless talks about mindset and writing craft in this wide-rangin... How can we move past our fears to write the books that mean the most to us? How can we write unique and compelling characters that keep readers coming back for more in a series?



Barbara Nickless talks about mindset and writing craft in this wide-ranging interview.



In the intro, Planning for a Creative 2024 and Trends for Independent Authors [ALLi]; Reflecting on 2023 and self-publishing trends for 2024 [Draft2Digital]; Launch of GPT store [The Verge]; check out the Jo-bot for writing advice; Innovator GPT; Getty launches their own generative AI [The Verge]; Microsoft announced an AI key on their new keyboards [BBC]; Open AI responds to the NY Times lawsuit.



Plus, thoughts on shifting to mixed grip and why taking a step back is so important to moving forward; History Quill conference; sort out your DMARC records; my book trailer for Beneath the Zoo, and re-assessing my timeline for 2024, a big election year for the US and UK. Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Barbara Nickless is the multi-award winning and international bestselling author of the Sydney Rose Parnell crime thrillers and the Dr. Evan Wilding serial killer thrillers.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Tackling fears in order to write



* The research process for fiction writing



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:12:58
The Next Strategic Step On Your Author Journey And Author Nation With Joe Solari https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/08/the-next-strategic-step-on-your-author-journey-and-author-nation-with-joe-solari/ Mon, 08 Jan 2024 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35919 <p>Wherever you are on the author journey, there are some important questions to consider along the way. Joe Solari outlines a strategic step forward for new authors, midlist indies, and those with ambitious financial goals. Plus, what is Author Nation? In the intro, Top 10 trends for publishing [Written Word Media]; Indie author predictions for […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/08/the-next-strategic-step-on-your-author-journey-and-author-nation-with-joe-solari/">The Next Strategic Step On Your Author Journey And Author Nation With Joe Solari</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Wherever you are on the author journey, there are some important questions to consider along the way. Joe Solari outlines a strategic step forward for new authors, midlist indies, and those with ambitious financial goals. Plus, what is Author Nation? Wherever you are on the author journey, there are some important questions to consider along the way. Joe Solari outlines a strategic step forward for new authors, midlist indies, and those with ambitious financial goals. Plus, what is Author Nation?



In the intro, Top 10 trends for publishing [Written Word Media]; Indie author predictions for 2024 [ALLi]; Book publishing predictions [Kathleen Schmidt]; AI in 2024 [MIT Technology Review]; Chat to the JoBot on ChatGPT; Midjourney and video creation [Decrypt]; Business as usual is not an option [TNPS]; Beneath the Zoo in audio and ebook; The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Joe Solari helps authors build great businesses through books, courses, and podcasting, as well as strategy and operations consulting. He's also the managing partner of Author Ventures, which organizes Author Nation, coming to Las Vegas in November 2024.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Business strategies for authors at different stages



* Allocating time and money as a new author



* Branding for a midlist indie author



* Financial freedom vs. business expansion. What do you really want?



* What to expect from Author Nation 2024



* Why getting out of your comfort zone is the way to success




You can find Joe and Author Nation at AuthorNation.live or AuthorVenturesLLC.com



Transcript of Interview with Joe Solari



Joanna: Joe Solari helps authors build great businesses through books, courses, and podcasting,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:11:50
My 2024 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn [Updated] https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/01/my-2024-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/ Mon, 01 Jan 2024 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35918 <p>Happy New Year 2024! I love January and the opportunity to start afresh. I know it’s arbitrary in some ways, but I measure my life by what I create, and I measure it in years. At the end of each year, I make a photobook, and I publish an article here, which helps keep me […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2024/01/01/my-2024-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/">My 2024 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn [Updated]</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Happy New Year 2024! I love January and the opportunity to start afresh. I know it’s arbitrary in some ways, but I measure my life by what I create, and I measure it in years. At the end of each year, I make a photobook, and I publish an article here, Happy New Year 2024!



I love January and the opportunity to start afresh. I know it’s arbitrary in some ways, but I measure my life by what I create, and I measure it in years.



At the end of each year, I make a photobook, and I publish an article here, which helps keep me accountable. If you’d like to share your goals, please add them in the comments below. 



2023 was a year of change, culminating in my 15-Year Pivot, and so 2024 will be a year of consolidation and optimization of my new creative and business processes — as well as writing and creating, plus surfing the wave of more change ahead.







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* J.F. Penn — Spear of Destiny, and the Gothic Cathedral project



* The Creative Penn Podcast and Patreon Community



* Streamline The Creative Penn website, redo my Author Blueprint, and update my backlist books



* Optimize my Shopify stores and Meta ads



* Experiment more with AI tools that allow me to do more human creative things



* Speaking and travel, health and fitness



* Financials




As ever, I am a full-time author-entrepreneur and this is my job, so I have a lot of goals. If your goals are simpler — like finishing your book, or publishing for the first time, or selling 1000 copies, then fantastic! You don’t have to have such extensive goals as me. 



Please share your goals in the comments so we can keep each other accountable.



J.F. Penn — Spear of Destiny, and the Gothic Cathedral project



I’m planning on two major book projects, both launching with a special edition high-quality hardback and other exclusive products on Kickstarter, then selling the main editions on my JFPennBooks.com store before publishing wide to all the usual places. 



Spear of Destiny, An ARKANE Thriller book 13 will be first, possibly launching in April/May. I’ve already started the research in terms of reading and thinking, and I have a trip booked to Vienna, Nuremberg, and Cologne at the end of January for more in-depth research and story hunting. 



Spear of Destiny, cover mockup, jo penn on DALLE3


The Gothic Cathedral project is a chaotic mess of ideas right now, which I absolutely love. I have some vague thoughts on what it might turn into. I trust emergence!



There will certainly be a gorgeous limited edition hardback of my photos of Gothic cathedrals which I’ve been taking for over a decade alongside essays on various aspects that go al...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 40:46
Review Of My 2023 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/31/review-of-my-2023-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/ Sun, 31 Dec 2023 07:20:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35858 <p>Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals. I hope you will take the time to review your goals and you're welcome to leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to? Let me know in the comments. In the intro, 2023 […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/31/review-of-my-2023-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/">Review Of My 2023 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals. I hope you will take the time to review your goals and you're welcome to leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to? Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals.



I hope you will take the time to review your goals and you're welcome to leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to? Let me know in the comments.



In the intro, 2023 was the year that Twitter died — and became X. What that means for me, plus The Verge does an overview. Thoughts on lighthouses and what yours might be, from The Comfort Book by Matt Haig quoting Anne Lamott; “We’re in an artist’s age now,” reflections on the changing author business model from Johnny B. Truant; The Future by Naomi Alderman.






This episode is supported by my Patreon community, who fund my future-focused thinking time. If you join the community, you get an extra solo Q&A show monthly, as well as behind-the-scenes videos on planning for the year ahead, AI and creative business, plus discounts, early access, and more. Join the community for the price of a coffee a month at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes



You can read my 2023 goals here and I reflect on what I achieved below.




* J.F. Penn — Pilgrimage, Catacomb, and short stories



* Up-skilling into direct sales with Kickstarter and Shopify, and building a fiction-first store



* Joanna Penn — Writing the Shadow



* The Creative Penn Podcast and Patreon move to monthly Community



* Experiment with futurist technologies and share what I learn along the way 



* Financial goals



* Travel, speaking, health, and other things




Let me know in the comments below how your 2023 creative goals went.



J.F. Penn — Pilgrimage, Catacomb, and short stories 



Although I wrote and edited Pilgrimage in 2022, the publishing, launch, and marketing all happened in the first quarter of 2023.



The ...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 53:21
The 15-Year Author Business Pivot With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/18/the-15-year-author-business-pivot-with-joanna-penn/ Mon, 18 Dec 2023 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35543 <p>In this episode, I reflect on 15 years of TheCreative Penn, and outline how I will reposition myself for the next 15 years of being an author entrepreneur. In the intro, We used to do that [Seth Godin]; Penguin Random House has acquired Hay House [Publishing Perspectives]; Business for Authors; Your Author Business Plan; OpenAI […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/18/the-15-year-author-business-pivot-with-joanna-penn/">The 15-Year Author Business Pivot With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> In this episode, I reflect on 15 years of TheCreative Penn, and outline how I will reposition myself for the next 15 years of being an author entrepreneur. In the intro, We used to do that [Seth Godin]; Penguin Random House has acquired Hay House [Publ... In this episode, I reflect on 15 years of TheCreative Penn, and outline how I will reposition myself for the next 15 years of being an author entrepreneur.



In the intro,
We used to do that [Seth Godin]; Penguin Random House has acquired Hay House [Publishing Perspectives]; Business for Authors; Your Author Business Plan; OpenAI has announced a partnership with Axel Springer, the first publishing house globally to partner with them to integrate journalism with AI technologies.






This episode is supported by my Patreon community, who fund my future-focused thinking time. If you join the community, you get an extra solo Q&A show monthly, as well as behind-the-scenes videos on AI and creative business, plus, discounts, early access, and more. Join us for the price of a coffee a month at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* From Joanna Penn to J.F. Penn 



* From creating alone to the AI-Assisted Artisan Author



* From digital-focused to creating beautiful physical books



* From high-volume, low cost to premium products with higher Average Order Value 



* From retailer-centric to direct first



* From distance to presence 



* Pivoting a business is always a risk



* Will I still be here in another 15 years?




Let me know what you think. Are you pivoting your author business? What changes are you making to stay nimble in a fast-moving industry? Do you have any questions?



You can leave a comment below, or email me here.







Introduction



On 8 December 2008, I published my first blog post on www.TheCreativePenn.com. I had already self-published a book earlier that year and wanted to share my lessons learned.



]]> Joanna Penn full false 43:05 How Generative AI Search Will Impact Book Discoverability In The Next Decade https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/11/generative-ai-search-book-discoverability/ Mon, 11 Dec 2023 07:35:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35917 <p>How will changes to the way people search impact book discoverability? What can authors and publishers do to ensure their books are still found in the new form of generative AI search? While it's still early days for this technology, I share my thoughts in this article, with the hope that we can surf the […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/11/generative-ai-search-book-discoverability/">How Generative AI Search Will Impact Book Discoverability In The Next Decade</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How will changes to the way people search impact book discoverability? What can authors and publishers do to ensure their books are still found in the new form of generative AI search? While it's still early days for this technology, How will changes to the way people search impact book discoverability? What can authors and publishers do to ensure their books are still found in the new form of generative AI search?



While it's still early days for this technology, I share my thoughts in this article, with the hope that we can surf the wave of change, rather than drown in it.



In the intro, Launching a series [Wish I'd Known Then]; Selling direct on TikTok Shop [Rebel Author]; Bookbub Best Ads; The State of Indie Authorship [Written Word Media]; Authors can now distribute Google Play Books’ auto-narrated audiobooks with Findaway Voices by Spotify; How to use Google Play Books auto-narration, episode 642; Amazon KDP AI audio narration beta.



Plus, History Quill online conference; Beneath the Zoo [JFPennBooks; Other stores]; A Midwinter Sacrifice [JFPennBooks; Other stores];






This episode is supported by my Patreon community, who fund my future-focused thinking time. If you join the community, you get an extra solo Q&A show monthly, as well as behind-the-scenes videos on AI and creative business, plus, discounts, early access, and more. Join us for the price of a coffee a month at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How does search work now?



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:21:05
Publishing A Cookery Photo Book With Jane Dixon-Smith https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/04/self-publishing-a-cookery-photo-book-with-jane-dixon-smith/ Mon, 04 Dec 2023 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35896 <p>Do you want to publish an image-heavy book like a cookbook? How can you navigate the challenges of photography, book design, and publishing choices to make the best product possible? Jane Dixon-Smith shares her lessons learned from her first cookbook. In the intro, Brandon Sanderson's predictions about publishing [Daniel Greene]; Craig Mod talks about walking […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/12/04/self-publishing-a-cookery-photo-book-with-jane-dixon-smith/">Publishing A Cookery Photo Book With Jane Dixon-Smith</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Do you want to publish an image-heavy book like a cookbook? How can you navigate the challenges of photography, book design, and publishing choices to make the best product possible? Jane Dixon-Smith shares her lessons learned from her first cookbook. Do you want to publish an image-heavy book like a cookbook? How can you navigate the challenges of photography, book design, and publishing choices to make the best product possible? Jane Dixon-Smith shares her lessons learned from her first cookbook.



In the intro, Brandon Sanderson's predictions about publishing [Daniel Greene]; Craig Mod talks about walking and beautiful books [Long Form, Things Become Other Things]; Writing the Shadow [CreativePennBooks; Other stores].






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Jane Dixon-Smith is a historical fiction author, an award-winning book cover designer, graphic designer, and adventurer. Her latest book is The Great Adventure Baker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How adventure can keep your creative side alive



* Making a cookbook personal and unique



* Editing and testing the recipes



* Tips for producing the best photos without professional equipment



* Choosing the images for a photo-dominant book



* Choices in design and publishing



* Working with designers to incorporate AI into your designs




You can find Jane at JDSmith-design.co.uk.



Transcript of Interview with Jane Dixon-Smith



Joanna: Jane Dixon-Smith is a historical fiction author, an award-winning book cover designer, graphic designer, and adventurer. Her latest book is The Great Adventure Baker. Jane also designs my book covers and print interiors, so I am a huge fan of her work. So welcome back to the show, Jane.



Jane: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.



Joanna: It's gonna be exciting to talk about this because so many people want to do cookbooks, but there are many challenges. Before we get into that—



Tell us a bit more about your adventuring side of your life and why you decided to do a baking book at this point in your creative career.



Jane: Well, I got into adventuring properly, probably about five years ago.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 59:33
Subscriptions And The Creator Economy With Michael Evans https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/27/subscriptions-and-the-creator-economy-with-michael-evans/ Mon, 27 Nov 2023 07:30:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35857 <p>How might subscriptions help expand your author business ecosystem? What are some tips on encouraging readers to buy direct? Why is the future looking positive for authors in the creator economy? Michael Evans gives his thoughts. In the intro, marketing for multi-genre authors [Self Publishing Advice]; Same as Ever: Timeless lessons on risk, opportunity, and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/27/subscriptions-and-the-creator-economy-with-michael-evans/">Subscriptions And The Creator Economy With Michael Evans</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How might subscriptions help expand your author business ecosystem? What are some tips on encouraging readers to buy direct? Why is the future looking positive for authors in the creator economy? Michael Evans gives his thoughts. In the intro, How might subscriptions help expand your author business ecosystem? What are some tips on encouraging readers to buy direct? Why is the future looking positive for authors in the creator economy? Michael Evans gives his thoughts.



In the intro, marketing for multi-genre authors [Self Publishing Advice]; Same as Ever: Timeless lessons on risk, opportunity, and living a good life by Morgan Housel; Year of the Locust by Terry Hayes, and what we can learn from both of these books.



Plus, join me and Joseph Michael for a free webinar on Using AI as an author, 5 Dec 2023. Click here to find out more.






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Michael Evans is the author of science fiction thrillers, as well as Subscriptions for Authors and Creator Economy for Authors. He's also the co-founder of Ream, a subscription platform that helps authors create a thriving paid membership for their readers.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Finding the courage to try something new



* What subscriptions are and how authors can use them



* Who does well on Ream and other subscription-based platforms



* Creating incentives for readers to join subscription-based models



* Monetizing the idea of exclusivity and scarcity



* The importance of building trust with your audience



* Michael's optimism for the future of publishing




You can find Michael at ReamStories.com and SubscriptionsForAuthors.com



Transcript of Interview with Michael Evans



Joanna: Michael Evans is the author of science fiction thrillers, as well as Subscriptions for Authors and Creator Economy for Authors. He's also the co-founder of Ream, a subscription platform that helps authors create a thriving paid membership for their readers. So welcome to the show, Michael.



Michael: Thank you for having me. It's so wild, but really cool, to be on this end of the mic. I've been listening to you since the beginning.



Joanna: Thank you so much for coming on. So first up—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:10:38
Starting A Second Career As An Author And Networking Tips With Patrick O’Donnell https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/20/starting-a-second-career-as-an-author-and-networking-tips-with-patrick-odonnell/ Mon, 20 Nov 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35841 <p>How can you transition into being an author after a long-term career elsewhere? How can you adopt an attitude of service in order to build your network in an authentic manner? Patrick O'Donnell shares his tips. In the intro, Spotify subscribers in the US now have 15 hours of free audiobook listening [The Verge] — […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/20/starting-a-second-career-as-an-author-and-networking-tips-with-patrick-odonnell/">Starting A Second Career As An Author And Networking Tips With Patrick O’Donnell</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you transition into being an author after a long-term career elsewhere? How can you adopt an attitude of service in order to build your network in an authentic manner? Patrick O'Donnell shares his tips. In the intro, How can you transition into being an author after a long-term career elsewhere? How can you adopt an attitude of service in order to build your network in an authentic manner? Patrick O'Donnell shares his tips.



In the intro, Spotify subscribers in the US now have 15 hours of free audiobook listening [The Verge] — you can find most of my books there if you want to give them a try! Plus an update from 20BooksVegas, which will now be Author Nation; and signing my gold foil hardbacks of Writing the Shadow.



In AI news, ChatGPT is now multi-modal, and can also be fine-tuned as GPTs and made into agents. You can try out Creative Writing with The Creative Penn, or Write Thrillers like J.F. Penn, trained on my books. Plus, join me and Joseph Michael for a free webinar on Using AI as an author, 5 Dec 2023. Click here to find out more.







This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Patrick O'Donnell is a retired police sergeant with 25 years’ experience. He's now the author of nine books, including police procedurals and the Cops and Writers reference guides, as well as a podcaster, screenwriting technical consultant, and organizer of the Cop Camp Conference.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Becoming a writer after a significant first career



* Dos and don'ts of finding a mentor



* Being of service and volunteering with purpose



* Knowing when an author relationship clicks



* Writing entertainment vs. writing for therapy



* Cop Camp — What it is and why host it?



* Managing different energies in an author conference




You can find Patrick and CopsandWriters.com.



Transcript of Interview with Patrick O'Donnell



Joanna: Patrick O'Donnell is a retired police sergeant with 25 years’ experience. He's now the author of nine books, including police procedurals and the Cops and Writers reference guides, as well as a podcaster,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:03:24
The Mindset And Business Of Selling Books Direct With Russell Nohelty https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/13/the-mindset-and-business-of-selling-books-direct-with-russell-nohelty/ Mon, 13 Nov 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35838 <p>How can you shift your mindset from catalog sales to selling direct? How can you reframe the direct author business model to take advantage of creative possibilities for different kinds of products and long-term marketing? Russell Nohelty gives his tips in this interview. In the intro, Top 10 tips for indie authors [Clare Lydon]; 10 […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/13/the-mindset-and-business-of-selling-books-direct-with-russell-nohelty/">The Mindset And Business Of Selling Books Direct With Russell Nohelty</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you shift your mindset from catalog sales to selling direct? How can you reframe the direct author business model to take advantage of creative possibilities for different kinds of products and long-term marketing? How can you shift your mindset from catalog sales to selling direct? How can you reframe the direct author business model to take advantage of creative possibilities for different kinds of products and long-term marketing? Russell Nohelty gives his tips in this interview.



In the intro, Top 10 tips for indie authors [Clare Lydon]; 10 years lessons learned [SJ Pajonas], My timeline of being an author; Using AI tools for fact-checking [The Blue Garret];






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Russell Nohelty is the USA Today bestselling author of fiction, graphic novels and comics, nonfiction, and books for authors, including This is NOT a Book: Musings on living a writerly life.



His latest book is Direct Sales Mastery for Authors, co-written with Monica Leonelle, launching as this goes out on Kickstarter.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The mindset shift of selling direct



* Catalog sales vs direct sales



* The benefits of a direct relationship to customers and reframing the more personal touch experience



* Creativity in campaigns and print possibilities with direct sales



* Direct book marketing



* Keeping a long-term perspective and the flywheel concept of an author business




You can find Russell at RussellNohelty.com and his Kickstarter at WriterMBA.com/DSA



Transcript of Interview with Russell Nohelty



Joanna: Russell Nohelty is the USA Today bestselling author of fiction, graphic novels and comics, nonfiction, and books for authors, including This is NOT a Book: Musings on living a writerly life.



His latest book is Direct Sales Mastery for Authors, co-written with Monica Leonelle, launching as this goes out on Kickstarter. So welcome to the show, Russell.



Thank you so much for having me. It's been a career-long dream to be on this show because I've been listening to it for so long. So I'm very excited.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:05:54
Pinterest For Book Marketing With Trona Freeman https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/06/pinterest-for-book-marketing-with-trona-freeman/ Mon, 06 Nov 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35839 <p>How can using Pinterest more like a search engine help you sell more books? What are some of the ways to use Pinterest most effectively for book marketing? Trona Freeman gives her tips. In the intro, KDP announce an Invite-Only KDP Beta for Audiobooks; How to Double Down on Being Human: 5 Ways to Stand […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/11/06/pinterest-for-book-marketing-with-trona-freeman/">Pinterest For Book Marketing With Trona Freeman</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can using Pinterest more like a search engine help you sell more books? What are some of the ways to use Pinterest most effectively for book marketing? Trona Freeman gives her tips. In the intro, KDP announce an Invite-Only KDP Beta for Audiobooks;... How can using Pinterest more like a search engine help you sell more books? What are some of the ways to use Pinterest most effectively for book marketing? Trona Freeman gives her tips.



In the intro, KDP announce an Invite-Only KDP Beta for Audiobooks; How to Double Down on Being Human: 5 Ways to Stand Out in an Age of AI; Creative Planning with Orna Ross; Pathfinders edited by JL Collins; Kickstarter fulfillment for Writing the Shadow; In-Person Conference Tips for Introverts and Highly Sensitive People.






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books wide to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Trona Freeman specializes in Pinterest services and marketing for small business. She has a Master's in History of Art and lives in Scotland.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* What is Pinterest and how can authors use it for book marketing



* Utilizing keywords and SEO for your books



* Integration between Pinterest and Shopify



* Recommended tools for scheduling on Pinterest



* How engaging should you be? Do you have to reply to comments?



* How AI will be incorporated into the future of Pinterest




You can find Trona at services.ayelined.com



Transcript of Interview with Trona Freeman



Joanna: Trona Freeman specializes in Pinterest services and marketing for small business. She has a Master's in History of Art and lives in Scotland. So welcome to the show, Trona.



Trona: Hello, thank you so much for having me.



Joanna: Oh, I'm excited to talk about this. Before we get into it—



Tell us a bit more about you and why you focus particularly on Pinterest.



Trona: So I did my master's in history of art about 10 years ago now. Then I was going to do a PhD, but I fell pregnant with my son who's now nine. So I thought,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:01:29
Managing Your Author Business Over The Long Term With Tracy Cooper-Posey https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/30/managing-your-author-business-over-the-long-term-with-tracy-cooper-posey/ Mon, 30 Oct 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35818 <p>How can you reinvigorate your writing process, breathe life into your backlist, and prepare your author business for the rollercoaster that is publishing? Tracy Cooper-Posey gives her tips. In the intro, Authors Guild results [The Hotsheet]; more Promo Stacks with Written Word Media; Amazon's robot [BBC]; Amazon's generative image AI for products [Venture Beat]; Shutterstock's […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/30/managing-your-author-business-over-the-long-term-with-tracy-cooper-posey/">Managing Your Author Business Over The Long Term With Tracy Cooper-Posey</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you reinvigorate your writing process, breathe life into your backlist, and prepare your author business for the rollercoaster that is publishing? Tracy Cooper-Posey gives her tips. In the intro, Authors Guild results [The Hotsheet]; more Promo... How can you reinvigorate your writing process, breathe life into your backlist, and prepare your author business for the rollercoaster that is publishing? Tracy Cooper-Posey gives her tips.



In the intro, Authors Guild results [The Hotsheet]; more Promo Stacks with Written Word Media; Amazon's robot [BBC]; Amazon's generative image AI for products [Venture Beat]; Shutterstock's new AI image option; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter finishes (thank you!), and on pre-order. Plus, join my Patreon Community / TheCreativePenn and get AI tutorials plus other benefits.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Tracy Cooper-Posey is the multi-award-winning author of over 200 romance novels. Today, we're talking about her first non-fiction book for authors, The Productive Indie Fiction Writer: Strategies for Writing More, Earning More, and Living Well.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Changing as a writer and reinvigorating writing habits with a new genre



* Deciding what to focus on when there seems to be limitless options



* How a backlist underpins an indie author business



* Deciding when to update books or retire books



* Stash the cash, stash the books, stash the email list



* Tips for dealing with discouragement



* Utilizing BookFunnel promotions as a discovery tool




You can find Tracy at StoriesRulePress.com



Transcript of Interview with Tracy Cooper-Posey



Joanna: Tracy Cooper-Posey is the multi-award-winning author of over 200 romance novels. Today, we're talking about her first non-fiction book for authors, The Productive Indie Fiction Writer: Strategies for Writing More, Earning More, and Living Well.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 59:07
Stop Trying To Do Everything With Patricia McLinn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/23/stop-trying-to-do-everything-with-patricia-mclinn/ Mon, 23 Oct 2023 06:15:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35810 <p>How do you keep up with everything you need to do as your author business grows? How do you decide what to focus on as the industry changes — and you change, too? Patricia McLinn discusses her challenges with a big backlist of books and a mature indie author business. In the intro, Self-publishing's ongoing […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/23/stop-trying-to-do-everything-with-patricia-mclinn/">Stop Trying To Do Everything With Patricia McLinn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How do you keep up with everything you need to do as your author business grows? How do you decide what to focus on as the industry changes — and you change, too? Patricia McLinn discusses her challenges with a big backlist of books and a mature indie ... How do you keep up with everything you need to do as your author business grows? How do you decide what to focus on as the industry changes — and you change, too? Patricia McLinn discusses her challenges with a big backlist of books and a mature indie author business.



In the intro, Self-publishing's ongoing evolution [Publishers Weekly]; Audiobooks on Spotify and how my listening behavior is changing [FindawayVoices]; Author ecosystems, and an overview on the Kickstart your book sales podcast.



Plus, How to double down on being human: 5 ways to stand out in an age of AI; Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words; Let your dark horse run; Halloween Horror Bundle including Catacomb; The Wrong Planet autism book by Holger Nils Pohl; Join the community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Patricia McLinn is the award-winning and multi-USA Today bestselling author of over 60 books across mystery, contemporary and historical romance, women's fiction, and nonfiction.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Dealing with difficulties of changing business technology



* How to re-sane in a long-term author career



* Streamlining, outsourcing, and letting go



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:03:27
Writing The Soul Of Place With Linda Lappin https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/16/writing-the-soul-of-place-with-linda-lappin/ Mon, 16 Oct 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35775 <p>What is soul of place or genius loci and how can you write it in a more immersive way in your books? How can you discover it closer to home, as well as write real settings more authentically, and invent it for your fiction? Linda Lappin gives some tips in this interview. In the intro, […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/16/writing-the-soul-of-place-with-linda-lappin/">Writing The Soul Of Place With Linda Lappin</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What is soul of place or genius loci and how can you write it in a more immersive way in your books? How can you discover it closer to home, as well as write real settings more authentically, and invent it for your fiction? What is soul of place or genius loci and how can you write it in a more immersive way in your books? How can you discover it closer to home, as well as write real settings more authentically, and invent it for your fiction? Linda Lappin gives some tips in this interview.



In the intro, 140 Book Marketing Ideas from BookBub; JA Konrath on AI and The Authors Guild.



Plus, Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words, and I'm on lots of podcasts: The Rebel Author Podcast, Stark Reflections on Writing and Publishing; How Do You Write?; The Secret Library; Self-Publishing Show; Hybrid Author Podcast; Self-Publishing Advice Podcast; Novel Marketing Podcast. For a great ebook deal, check out the Halloween Storybundle






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Linda Lappin is the award-winning author of historical fiction and mystery, as well as The Soul of Place: A Creative Writing Workbook: Ideas and Exercises for Conjuring the Genius Loci.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* What is soul of place or genius loci?



* How to know when you feel the soul of place



* Using soul of place across genres



* Noticing your local environment in a different light



* The importance of sensory detail



* Experiencing sacred places



* Writing characters' homes to create more personal stories



* Writing as an outsider
]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:01:51
Let Your Dark Horse Run. Writing The Shadow With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/13/let-your-dark-horse-run-writing-the-shadow-with-joanna-penn/ Fri, 13 Oct 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35813 <p>How can you let your creative dark horse run? What is the Shadow — and why explore your Shadow side? This episode features excerpted chapters from the audiobook of Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words, written and narrated by Joanna Penn, available on Kickstarter until 25 October 2023: www.TheCreativePenn.com/shadowbook (link will redirect […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/13/let-your-dark-horse-run-writing-the-shadow-with-joanna-penn/">Let Your Dark Horse Run. Writing The Shadow With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you let your creative dark horse run? What is the Shadow — and why explore your Shadow side? This episode features excerpted chapters from the audiobook of Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words, How can you let your creative dark horse run? What is the Shadow — and why explore your Shadow side?



This episode features excerpted chapters from the audiobook of Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words, written and narrated by Joanna Penn, available on Kickstarter until 25 October 2023: www.TheCreativePenn.com/shadowbook (link will redirect if you're reading/listening in the future.)



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.




* Let your dark horse run



* Introduction: What is the Shadow?



* Why explore your Shadow side?







Let your dark horse run



Although much has changed over the last two thousand years, human nature remains the same. Around 370 BC, the Greek philosopher Plato composed The Phaedrus, which includes an allegory of a chariot that has helped me frame the Shadow. Perhaps it will help you, too.







Imagine a Roman chariot drawn by two horses — a white horse and a dark horse. I am the Charioteer, and I am in the race of my life.



The white horse represents my rational self, the one society sees.



My good behaviour, my industry, my hard work, my productivity, my scrubbed-clean, well-mannered good girl self. 



She helps others. She’s a peacemaker. She doesn’t like conflict. She says the right things, reads the right books. She needs to be liked.



My white horse trots delicately along paved roads, aware of the fences and boundaries, never needing to cross them, remaining within the lines drawn by others.



My dark horse is a wild animal, wreathed in smoke and ash and flame. 



She gallops across wide open spaces, leaps obstacles, smashes through fences, and avoids the paved and cornered world. 



She runs free and will destroy herself, rather than be caged.



If both horses run together in the same direction, I can fly along, whooping in delight at the speed and power. But if they become unbalanced, the chariot begins to wobble. 



When my dark horse stumbles, my white horse drives us hard along the highway, never stopping for rest. 



But if she dominates for too long, my dark horse rears up and runs out of control, driving us towards the cliff edge.



My white horse has often been stronger. 



I’ve always worked hard, got good grades, behaved well, earned enough money to support myself, paid my taxes early. 



But the more I let my white horse dominate, the more my dark one rears up unexpectedly and takes over until she exhausts herself with all the things that nice girls shouldn’t do. 



When I became a writer, these two horses drove me once more. 



My white horse writes non-fiction, helps others, wants to be useful, and responsibly manages a professional business. I’m grateful to have her!



My dark horse writes stories that tap into untamed darkness. 



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 30:56
Writing Faster Without Burning Out With LA Witt https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/09/writing-faster-without-burning-out-with-la-witt/ Mon, 09 Oct 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35773 <p>How can you establish a creative routine that enables you to write the books you want to write without burning out? How can you balance a sustainable work ethic as an author as well as spending time away from the desk. LA Witt talks about her strategies. In the intro, Spotify introduces 15 hours of […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/09/writing-faster-without-burning-out-with-la-witt/">Writing Faster Without Burning Out With LA Witt</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you establish a creative routine that enables you to write the books you want to write without burning out? How can you balance a sustainable work ethic as an author as well as spending time away from the desk. How can you establish a creative routine that enables you to write the books you want to write without burning out? How can you balance a sustainable work ethic as an author as well as spending time away from the desk. LA Witt talks about her strategies.



In the intro, Spotify introduces 15 hours of audiobooks for premium subscribers in limited countries [FindawayVoices]; Spotify auto-translates podcasts into other languages in the host's voice [Spotify]; Amazon invested in Anthropic, which includes generative text model, Claude [The Verge]; ChatGPT goes multi-modal [OpenAI]; DALL-E 3 launching which includes text with images [OpenAI]



Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words is now live! I'm also discussing the book, selling direct and other things on the Everyday Spirituality Podcast; Two Indie Authors; Becoming an international bestselling author;



Plus, check out the Halloween Storybundle and Becca Syme's Energy Pennies Kickstarter.






This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.






L.A. Witt is the author of nearly 200 romance novels and novellas, and today we're talking about her book for authors, Writing Faster for the Win.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Writing in multiple subgenres



* Tips for utilizing your space and time for writing effectively



* Discovering your sustainable word count



* Using brackets and placeholders to write faster



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:12:55
Adapting To Change With Jessie Kwak https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/02/adapting-to-change-with-jessie-kwak/ Mon, 02 Oct 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35771 <p>As much as we try to plan for things, sometimes life happens and we have to adapt to a new situation. Jessie Kwak talks about adapting to life as a freelance writer and author after being injured, and her tips for managing work and energy. In the intro, I mention Accessibility for All, the interview […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/10/02/adapting-to-change-with-jessie-kwak/">Adapting To Change With Jessie Kwak</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> As much as we try to plan for things, sometimes life happens and we have to adapt to a new situation. Jessie Kwak talks about adapting to life as a freelance writer and author after being injured, and her tips for managing work and energy. As much as we try to plan for things, sometimes life happens and we have to adapt to a new situation. Jessie Kwak talks about adapting to life as a freelance writer and author after being injured, and her tips for managing work and energy.



In the intro, I mention Accessibility for All, the interview I did with Jeff Adams about how we can make our content more accessible to people with injuries and disabilities. You can also check out KWL Podcast episode on Accessibility for Authors. Plus, Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words is launching soon on Kickstarter, register your interest in the launch here.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Jessie Kwak is the author of gangster sci-fi supernatural thrillers and nonfiction for creatives. She's also a ghostwriter and freelance marketing copywriter, and her books include From Big Idea to Book and From Chaos to Creativity.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Adapting to changing circumstances



* When medical situations affect your author business



* How changing appearances affects us at a deeper level



* The importance of accessibility tools for authors



* Prioritizing your use of energy when you only have a finite amount



* Ways to future-proof your business



* Healthcare costs for freelancers



* The Author Alchemy Summit hosted by Jessie Kwak




You can find Jessie at JessieKwak.com and her upcoming summit at AuthorAlchemySummit.com.



Transcript of Interview with Jessie Kwak



Joanna: Jessie Kwak is the author of gangster sci-fi supernatural thrillers and nonfiction for creatives. She's also a ghostwriter and freelance marketing copywriter, and her books include From Big Idea to Book and From Chaos to Creativity. So welcome back to the show, Jessie.



Jessie: Thank you for having me.



Joanna: It's good to talk to you again. Now, you were last on th...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 43:25
Writing And Publishing A High Quality Photo Book With Jeremy Bassetti https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/25/writing-and-publishing-a-high-quality-photo-book-with-jeremy-bassetti/ Mon, 25 Sep 2023 07:04:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35719 <p>How can you create a high-quality photo book and publish it on Kickstarter? How do you market a beautiful, high-value book? Jeremy Bassetti talks about his photo book project, Hill of the Skull. In the intro, Slow release book strategies [ALLi]; Seth Godin on how he is using ChatGPT; Consultants using AI worked faster and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/25/writing-and-publishing-a-high-quality-photo-book-with-jeremy-bassetti/">Writing And Publishing A High Quality Photo Book With Jeremy Bassetti</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you create a high-quality photo book and publish it on Kickstarter? How do you market a beautiful, high-value book? Jeremy Bassetti talks about his photo book project, Hill of the Skull. In the intro, How can you create a high-quality photo book and publish it on Kickstarter? How do you market a beautiful, high-value book? Jeremy Bassetti talks about his photo book project, Hill of the Skull.



In the intro, Slow release book strategies [
ALLi]; Seth Godin on how he is using ChatGPT; Consultants using AI worked faster and produced higher quality results [Ethan Mollick]; DALL-E includes text and consistent characters [OpenAI, Examples on X]; More authors suing OpenAI [The Verge].



Plus, Writing the Shadow Kickstarter; Gold cover video; Wing of an Angel Kickstarter; Pics of Norway on Instagram @jfpennauthor






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Jeremy Bassetti is a travel writer, editor, teacher, and author of historical fiction, as well as the host of the Travel Writing World Podcast. His latest project is The Hill of the Skull: A Photobook Memoir, launching on Kickstarter.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Tips for capturing travel experiences for later reference



* Legal and ethical concerns in publishing photos of people



* The multilayered editing process of a photo book



* Sourcing a printer for high-quality books



* Adding different levels and products to a Kickstarter campaign



* Why Kickstarter vs. other publishing methods



* The importance of marketing




You can find Jeremy at JeremyBassetti.com, his podcast at TravelWritingWorld.com,]]> Joanna Penn full false 1:02:57 Lessons Learned from 12 Years as an Author Entrepreneur https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/18/lessons-learned-from-12-years-as-an-author-entrepreneur/ Mon, 18 Sep 2023 07:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35581 <p>In this solo episode, I talk about my lessons learned from 12 years as a full-time author entrepreneur. You can read/listen to previous updates at TheCreativePenn.com/timeline. In the intro, Finding readers [ALLi blog]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter. Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/18/lessons-learned-from-12-years-as-an-author-entrepreneur/">Lessons Learned from 12 Years as an Author Entrepreneur</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> In this solo episode, I talk about my lessons learned from 12 years as a full-time author entrepreneur. You can read/listen to previous updates at TheCreativePenn.com/timeline. In the intro, Finding readers [ALLi blog]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter. In this solo episode, I talk about my lessons learned from 12 years as a full-time author entrepreneur. You can read/listen to previous updates at TheCreativePenn.com/timeline.



In the intro, Finding readers [ALLi blog]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Memoir is one of the hardest and most rewarding genres



* Disruption is inevitable. If you don't disrupt yourself, you will be disrupted.



* Disrupting my creative process with generative AI tools



* Disrupting my publishing and marketing process with Kickstarter and Shopify



* How much do I rely on Amazon for book sales and total business income?




You can support the podcast on Patreon.com/thecreativepenn and get a lot more behind-the-scenes business and AI insights. You can sign up for my Author Blueprint here.



You can buy my books for authors at www.CreativePennBooks.com and my fiction and memoir at www.JFPennBooks.com.



Sign up for my next Kickstarter here: Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words.






Lessons Learned from 12 Years as an Author Entrepreneur



Twelve years ago, in Sept...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 49:21
Writing And Producing Audio Drama With Joanne Phillips https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/11/writing-and-producing-audio-drama-with-joanne-phillips/ Mon, 11 Sep 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35718 <p>What's the difference between an audio book and an audio drama? What are the steps to write a script and produce it? Joanne Phillips gives her tips. In the intro, Amazon KDP's new AI content guidelines; AI at the heart of what Amazon does [The Verge]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter; 1000 Libraries Kickstarter; Today's show […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/11/writing-and-producing-audio-drama-with-joanne-phillips/">Writing And Producing Audio Drama With Joanne Phillips</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What's the difference between an audio book and an audio drama? What are the steps to write a script and produce it? Joanne Phillips gives her tips. In the intro, Amazon KDP's new AI content guidelines; AI at the heart of what Amazon does [The Verge]; ... What's the difference between an audio book and an audio drama? What are the steps to write a script and produce it? Joanne Phillips gives her tips.



In the intro,
Amazon KDP's new AI content guidelines; AI at the heart of what Amazon does [The Verge]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter; 1000 Libraries Kickstarter;










Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Joanne Phillips is the author of 14 books, including romantic comedy, literary fiction, mysteries, and self-help books. She's also the scriptwriter, showrunner, and executive producer for GravyTree Media, specializing in audio drama, with Everyone's Happy out now.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* What an audio drama is compared to an audiobook or podcast



* The process of writing and adapting an audio drama



* How to cast voice actors



* Details on creating the raw audio, editing, and adding sound effects



* Time and cost commitment of creating an audio drama



* Incorporating AI tools into the audio production



* Marketing tips for fiction audio




You can find Joanne at GravyTreeMedia.com



Transcript of Interview with Joanne Phillips



Joanna: Joanne Phillips is the author of 14 books, including romantic comedy, literary fiction, mysteries, and self-help books. She's also the scriptwriter, showrunner, and executive producer for GravyTree Media, specializing in audio drama, with Everyone's Happy out now. So welcome to the show, Jo.



Joanne: Hi, Jo. It's great to be here.



Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you about this topic because it's so interesting. But first up—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.



Joanne: So I've always written and made up stories, like most writers, really. I can't remember a time when I wasn't writing and creating narratives. I think it's how I make sense of the world. It's how I escaped, that sounds terrible?!



Joanna: No, not at all.



Joanne: It's how I kept myself company,]]> Joanna Penn full false 1:13:07 Using AI Images In Your Book Cover Design Process With Damon Freeman https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/07/using-ai-images-in-your-book-cover-design-process-with-damon-freeman/ Thu, 07 Sep 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35749 <p>How can you expand the possibilities of book cover images with AI? What are some of the controversies and how can authors and designers work together with AI tools to create original design? Book cover designer Damon Freeman discusses his views. There are lots of links in the show notes below to specific resources, but […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/07/using-ai-images-in-your-book-cover-design-process-with-damon-freeman/">Using AI Images In Your Book Cover Design Process With Damon Freeman</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you expand the possibilities of book cover images with AI? What are some of the controversies and how can authors and designers work together with AI tools to create original design? Book cover designer Damon Freeman discusses his views. How can you expand the possibilities of book cover images with AI? What are some of the controversies and how can authors and designers work together with AI tools to create original design? Book cover designer Damon Freeman discusses his views.



There are lots of links in the show notes below to specific resources, but of course, the AI space moves fast, so always check the Terms and Conditions of any site you want to investigate further. I also mention the free webinar on AI Ads for Authors with Mark Dawson and James Blatch.






Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio — and my tutorial on how I use Midjourney. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Damon Freeman is the founder and creative director of Damonza.com, creating custom book cover design and interior formatting for authors.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Using AI tools as part of the creative process



* How Midjourney works



* Discussion on copyright



* How AI tools are enabling the creation of unique cover images that have been almost impossible before



* If AI will be able to do everything, how will creatives make a living?



* Tips for working with your cover designer and incorporating AI



* Damon has some great articles on AI images in book covers here, and he also mentions James at GoOnWrite who has an article for self-published authors around AI and images here.




You can find Damon at Damonza.com.



Transcript of Interview with Damon Freeman



Joanna: Damon Freeman is the founder and creative director of Damonza.com, creating custom book cover design and interior formatting for authors. So welcome to the show, Damon.



Damon: Thank you, Joanna. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to chat. I'm really looking forward to it.



Joanna: Oh, me too. So we're going to talk specifically about AI images as part of the design process today. But first up—



Tell us a bit more about you, your design background, and how you've been working with authors for over a decade.



Damon: I trained as a graphic designer, and I was working in normal graphic design businesses.



I started my own company as a general kind of graphic design...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 46:01
Producing Visual, High Quality Books, Thinking Differently, and Kickstarter Lessons With Holger Nils Pohl https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/04/producing-visual-high-quality-books-thinking-differently-and-kickstarter-lessons-with-holger-nils-pohl/ Mon, 04 Sep 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35710 <p>How might thinking differently help you create clarity in our noisy world? How can you produce a high-quality print book — and successfully fund it on Kickstarter? Holger Nils Pohl discusses these things and more. In the intro, Copyright in an age of AI [Self Publishing Advice, Monica Leonelle, Ars Technica, The Verge, The Atlantic; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/09/04/producing-visual-high-quality-books-thinking-differently-and-kickstarter-lessons-with-holger-nils-pohl/">Producing Visual, High Quality Books, Thinking Differently, and Kickstarter Lessons With Holger Nils Pohl</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How might thinking differently help you create clarity in our noisy world? How can you produce a high-quality print book — and successfully fund it on Kickstarter? Holger Nils Pohl discusses these things and more. In the intro, How might thinking differently help you create clarity in our noisy world? How can you produce a high-quality print book — and successfully fund it on Kickstarter? Holger Nils Pohl discusses these things and more.



In the intro, Copyright in an age of AI [Self Publishing Advice, Monica Leonelle, Ars Technica, The Verge, The Atlantic; Insider; Kathryn Goldman; US Government Copyright Office AI Submission]; Writing the Shadow Kickstarter; Lesbians Who Write; Pretty Links;






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Holger Nils Pohl is a visual strategist, professional speaker, trainer, and coach. He's also the author of multiple books, from business to children's books, as well as the co-creator of an award-winning business board game.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Breaking out of the traditional publishing mindset



* The creative process — distilling ideas into visual images versus words



* Neurodiversity as a creative



* Living authentically and breaking out of ‘masking'



* Challenges of creating a high-quality book



* Return on investment for nonfiction authors on Kickstarter



* Six tips for a successful Kickstarter



* How creatives can create clarity and choose the right direction




You can find Holger at HolgerNilsPohl.com.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:17:00
Writing Poetry In The Dark With Stephanie Wytovich https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/28/writing-poetry-in-the-dark-with-stephanie-wytovich/ Mon, 28 Aug 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35579 <p>How can you stop self-censoring your writing and share the deepest aspects of yourself with your readers? How can you break poetry out of the restraints that many try to put upon it? Stephanie Wytovich talks about these things and more. In the intro, 5 trends that are shifting the future of publishing with Monica […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/28/writing-poetry-in-the-dark-with-stephanie-wytovich/">Writing Poetry In The Dark With Stephanie Wytovich</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you stop self-censoring your writing and share the deepest aspects of yourself with your readers? How can you break poetry out of the restraints that many try to put upon it? Stephanie Wytovich talks about these things and more. In the intro, How can you stop self-censoring your writing and share the deepest aspects of yourself with your readers? How can you break poetry out of the restraints that many try to put upon it? Stephanie Wytovich talks about these things and more.



In the intro, 5 trends that are shifting the future of publishing with Monica Leonelle & Russell Nohelty; Direct Sales Strategies We Love from 36 Authors from BookBub; JFPennBooks Reading Order; AI Training Permission from Hugh Howey; Eleven Labs for AI voices and VoiceSwitcher with Storytel;



Plus, Kickstarter for Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words; Chuck Palahniuk on James Altucher talking about unmasking shadows; Carl Jung's Red Book, which features in Stone of Fire.






This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.






Stephanie M. Wytovich is a Bram Stoker award-winning poet, as well as a horror novelist and essayist. She's also the poetry editor for Raw Dog Screaming Press and the editor of Writing Poetry in the Dark.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Allowing poetry to break out from fitting in a box



* How to put together a poetry collection



* Balancing writing for therapy and writing for the reader



* Ways to stop ourselves from self-censoring



* Where the darker sides of ourselves come from



* The horror genre and what it encompasses



* Differences between mainstream books and award winners



* Benefits of being involved with a community of writers

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:02:22
Build A Successful Author Business For The Long Term With Joe Solari https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/21/build-a-successful-author-business-for-the-long-term-with-joe-solari/ Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35570 <p>How can you build an author business for the long term, and not just for the launch of one book? How do you ensure secure cash flow and profits, instead of focusing on short-term spike sales? Joe Solari discusses key aspects of your author business. In the intro, Kobo Plus expands to audiobooks in Australia […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/21/build-a-successful-author-business-for-the-long-term-with-joe-solari/">Build A Successful Author Business For The Long Term With Joe Solari</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you build an author business for the long term, and not just for the launch of one book? How do you ensure secure cash flow and profits, instead of focusing on short-term spike sales? Joe Solari discusses key aspects of your author business. How can you build an author business for the long term, and not just for the launch of one book? How do you ensure secure cash flow and profits, instead of focusing on short-term spike sales? Joe Solari discusses key aspects of your author business.



In the intro, Kobo Plus expands to audiobooks in Australia & New Zealand; Thoughts on the changing publishing environment based on Thrillerfest Audios (well worth buying!), and you can book for Thrillerfest 2024 here; Letter to the FTC from The Authors Guild, American Booksellers Association and the Open Markets Institute on Amazon dominance in the industry.



Plus, my next book for authors Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words will be out on Kickstarter in October, sign up for the pre-launch here; Great examples of creative extras in Sara Rosett's campaign Murder in the Alps; and I'm on the Travelling Through Podcast on a walk and talk along the canal.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Joe Solari helps authors build great businesses through books, courses, podcasting, as well as strategy and operations consulting. He is the author of Advantage: Harnessing Cumulative Advantage in the Winner Takes All Publishing Market and May I Have a Moment of Your Attention: How to Be Heard in a Noisy Market.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Can every author learn to be a business person?



* Budgeting as an author and solving cashflow issues



* Business models for fiction vs nonfiction authors



* Managing the problem of scale as your audience grows



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:28:57
Publishing Books For Children And Profitable School Visits With Tonya Ellis https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/14/publishing-books-for-children-and-profitable-school-visits-with-tonya-ellis/ Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35557 <p>How can you create a book series that children love — and that you can expand into multiple streams of income? How can you offer a fantastic experience to schools — and get paid well for your time? Tonya Duncan Ellis gives her tips. In the intro, investment firm KKR will buy Simon & Schuster […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/14/publishing-books-for-children-and-profitable-school-visits-with-tonya-ellis/">Publishing Books For Children And Profitable School Visits With Tonya Ellis</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you create a book series that children love — and that you can expand into multiple streams of income? How can you offer a fantastic experience to schools — and get paid well for your time? Tonya Duncan Ellis gives her tips. In the intro, How can you create a book series that children love — and that you can expand into multiple streams of income? How can you offer a fantastic experience to schools — and get paid well for your time? Tonya Duncan Ellis gives her tips.



In the intro, investment firm KKR will buy Simon & Schuster [Publishing Perspectives]; Subscriber Surge Giveaways [Written Word Media]; Key Book Publishing Paths [Jane Friedman].



Plus, lots happening with Amazon. I would rather see my books get pirated than this (Or why Goodreads and Amazon are becoming dumpster fires) by Jane Friedman; Blockchain for provenance and copyright with Roanie Levy; “Every single one” of Amazon’s businesses has “multiple generative AI initiatives going right now.” [The Verge]; Amazon AI tool coming for writing product descriptions [The Information]; FTC antitrust lawsuit [Politico]; Amazon is “eliminating dozens of its private label brands” which may help “placate antitrust regulators” [Wall St Journal]; “Amazon will be disrupted,” says Jeff Bezos (in 2013) [Insider].






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Tonya Duncan Ellis is the award-winning author of the Sophie Washington chapter book series and activity books, as well as a professional speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Beginning your career as a self-published author



* Tips for working with an illustrator



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:12:17
How AI Tools Are Useful For Writers With Disabilities And Health Issues With S.J. Pajonas https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/11/how-ai-tools-are-useful-for-writers-with-disabilities-and-health-issues-with-s-j-pajonas/ Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35587 <p>How can AI tools help authors who struggle with energy and time because of disability, chronic pain, health conditions, post-viral fatigue, or other unavoidable life issues? Steph Pajonas explains why AI is important for accessibility and more. Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/11/how-ai-tools-are-useful-for-writers-with-disabilities-and-health-issues-with-s-j-pajonas/">How AI Tools Are Useful For Writers With Disabilities And Health Issues With S.J. Pajonas</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can AI tools help authors who struggle with energy and time because of disability, chronic pain, health conditions, post-viral fatigue, or other unavoidable life issues? Steph Pajonas explains why AI is important for accessibility and more. How can AI tools help authors who struggle with energy and time because of disability, chronic pain, health conditions, post-viral fatigue, or other unavoidable life issues? Steph Pajonas explains why AI is important for accessibility and more.






Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn






S.J. Pajonas is the USA Today Best Selling author of science fiction, romance and cozy mystery, with over 30 books under two pen names. She also started the Facebook group AI Writing for Authors, and is one of the founders of the Future Fiction Academy, teaching authors how to harness the power of AI to revolutionize the world of fiction writing.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Using AI tools to overcome brain fog and help brainstorm



* AI tools to help writers with disabilities



* How to stand out in a saturated market



* Generative search for creating a more nuanced search



* Using AI as a co-writer and having fun



* What is the Future Fiction Academy and how does it help others?




You can find Steph at SPajonas.com, FutureFictionAcademy.com, or at the AI Writing for Authors Facebook Group.



Transcript of Interview with Steph Pajonas



Joanna: S.J. Pajonas is the USA Today Best Selling author of science fiction, romance and cozy mystery, with over 30 books under two pen names. She also started the Facebook group AI Writing for Authors, and is one of the founders of the Future Fiction Academy, teaching authors how to harness the power of AI to revolutionize the world of fiction writing. So welcome, Steph.



Steph: Thank you so much for having me, Joanna. I'm so excited to be here. You have no idea.



Joanna: Well, it's funny because you and I have been connected for probably a decade. We've been on social media and like comments and all of this, but this is the first time you're on the show. So first up—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.



Steph: I think that my story about writing is pretty similar to most people. I started writing at a young age. I really enjoyed writing fanfiction and screenplays when I was in high school. I did some co-writing with a friend of mine, and we really enjoyed coming up and using other people's worlds to tell stories. So that was a lot of fun for me. 



Then when I went to university, I went to Michigan State University, I studied a field that is not really in use anymore, telecommunications.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 48:48
The Marketing Mind Shift And The Power Of Ad Stacking With Ricci Wolman https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/07/the-marketing-mind-shift-and-the-power-of-ad-stacking-with-ricci-wolman/ Mon, 07 Aug 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35555 <p>How can you shift your mindset in order to reach more readers with your books? How can you leverage the tools available for authors to sell more copies? Ricci Wolman from Written Word Media gives her tips. In the intro, The Hotsheet useful newsletter; Book publishing is broken; In the US, the Federal Trade Commission […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/08/07/the-marketing-mind-shift-and-the-power-of-ad-stacking-with-ricci-wolman/">The Marketing Mind Shift And The Power Of Ad Stacking With Ricci Wolman</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you shift your mindset in order to reach more readers with your books? How can you leverage the tools available for authors to sell more copies? Ricci Wolman from Written Word Media gives her tips. In the intro, How can you shift your mindset in order to reach more readers with your books? How can you leverage the tools available for authors to sell more copies? Ricci Wolman from Written Word Media gives her tips.



In the intro, The Hotsheet useful newsletter; Book publishing is broken; In the US, the Federal Trade Commission is about to launch the antitrust lawsuit against Amazon [Politico] and a thought experiment; The Authors Guild trains authors on AI tools, and so does the IPG, and so does Publishers Weekly. Google rolls AI writing into Docs and Gmail.



JFPennBooks.com is live — use discount coupon LAUNCH for 15% off all books in all formats until the end of August 2023. Catacomb is available on my store and also everywhere else.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Ricci Wolman is the founder and CEO of Written Word Media, a marketing platform that empowers authors to market and sell their books. Ricci has been in the self-publishing space for nearly a decade. She holds an MBA from Harvard, and is passionate about using her marketing powers for good.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Creating a positive attitude towards marketing



* Separating ourselves from our art to become business-minded



* What Written Word Media offers authors and readers



* Ad stacking — what it is and why it's so successful



* Price differences when marketing different genres



* The many aspects that make up the marketing ecosystem



* The future of selling direct while utilizing promo services




You can find Ricci at WrittenWo...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:06:39
Writing Fast, Collaboration, And Author Mindset With Daniel Willcocks https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/31/writing-fast-collaboration-and-author-mindset-with-daniel-willcocks/ Mon, 31 Jul 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35527 <p>How can you write fast but also make your creative process sustainable for the long term? How can you collaborate effectively with other authors in your genre? Dan Willcocks talks about his creative and business approach. In the intro, Draft2Digital acquires SelfPubBookCovers; Different types of creative energy [Self Publishing Advice]; Twitter becomes X [The Verge]; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/31/writing-fast-collaboration-and-author-mindset-with-daniel-willcocks/">Writing Fast, Collaboration, And Author Mindset With Daniel Willcocks</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you write fast but also make your creative process sustainable for the long term? How can you collaborate effectively with other authors in your genre? Dan Willcocks talks about his creative and business approach. In the intro, How can you write fast but also make your creative process sustainable for the long term? How can you collaborate effectively with other authors in your genre? Dan Willcocks talks about his creative and business approach.



In the intro,
Draft2Digital acquires SelfPubBookCovers; Different types of creative energy [Self Publishing Advice]; Twitter becomes X [The Verge]; TikTok text posts [The Verge]; What AI can help you do in 30 mins [Ethan Mollick]; Discovery Writing with ChatGPT by J. Thorn; Claude 100K model on Poe.com; Facebook AI Writing for Authors.



Please join my shadow survey for my next book: www.jfpenn.com/shadowsurvey.



Plus Catacomb is available now! Walker Kane didn't believe in monsters … Until they came for his daughter. Buy now on my new store, www.JFPennBooks.com – use discount coupon LAUNCH for 15% off.






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Daniel Willcocks is the international bestselling author of over 60 books, including horror, sci-fi, and nonfiction. He's also an award-winning podcaster, author coach and speaker, and runs the Activated Author community.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Tips for being a prolific writer



* Reasons why authors write darker books



* Scheduling separate times for writing different genres



* Creating a successful co-writing relationship



* What is a series of standalone?



* How to manage your time when you juggle multiple projects



* Optimizing your strengths to best run an author business



* Ambition and working to reach long-term goals Joanna Penn full false 1:07:54 Writing From Your Shadow Side With Michaelbrent Collings https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/24/writing-from-your-shadow-side-with-michaelbrent-collings/ Mon, 24 Jul 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35542 <p>How can you use what you're scared of to write better stories that resonate with readers? How can you acknowledge your shadow side and bring aspects of it into the light in a healthy way that serves you and your customers? Michaelbrent Collings talks about his experiences — and you can do my Shadow Survey […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/24/writing-from-your-shadow-side-with-michaelbrent-collings/">Writing From Your Shadow Side With Michaelbrent Collings</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you use what you're scared of to write better stories that resonate with readers? How can you acknowledge your shadow side and bring aspects of it into the light in a healthy way that serves you and your customers? How can you use what you're scared of to write better stories that resonate with readers? How can you acknowledge your shadow side and bring aspects of it into the light in a healthy way that serves you and your customers?



Michaelbrent Collings talks about his experiences — and you can do my Shadow Survey here (before 31 Aug 2023).



In the intro, The Inner Work of Age by Connie Zweig; different kinds of direct sales [Wish I'd Known Then]; QuitCast on productivity and burnout with Becca Syme; 7 success factors for neurodivergent and cognitively impaired self-published authors [Self-Publishing Advice]; Outcomes of an AI Future [Moonshots and Mindsets]






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Michaelbrent Collings is the multi-award-nominated internationally bestselling author of over 50 books across horror, thriller, fantasy, sci-fi and more, as well as a produced screenwriter and speaker.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Writing from the shadow side of the self



* Bringing your fears and guilts into your writing



* How to bring your shadows to the surface in a helpful way



* Differences in what we find appropriate based on culture and upbringing



* The underlying hope when reading and writing horror



* Hiding our shame in our shadows



* Tips for overcoming self-censorship




You can find Michaelbrent at WrittenInsomnia.com and his Bestseller Life course at BestsellerLife.com



Transcript of Interview with Michaelbrent Collings



Joanna: Michaelbrent Collings is the multi-award-nominated internationally bestselling author of over 50 books across horror, thriller, fantasy, sci fi and more, as well as a produced screenwriter and speaker. So welcome back to the show, Michaelbrent.

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:04:43
Your Publishing Options With Rachael Herron https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/17/your-publishing-options-with-rachael-herron/ Mon, 17 Jul 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35537 <p>What are the pros and cons of traditional publishing vs self-publishing? How can you combine multiple options for a more creatively satisfying — and profitable — author career? Rachael Herron gives her tips. In the intro, Power Thesaurus and editing tips for audio; How Writers Fail — Kris Rusch; Finishing energy; Sidekick for Shopify; Shadow […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/17/your-publishing-options-with-rachael-herron/">Your Publishing Options With Rachael Herron</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the pros and cons of traditional publishing vs self-publishing? How can you combine multiple options for a more creatively satisfying — and profitable — author career? Rachael Herron gives her tips. In the intro, What are the pros and cons of traditional publishing vs self-publishing? How can you combine multiple options for a more creatively satisfying — and profitable — author career? Rachael Herron gives her tips.



In the intro, Power Thesaurus and editing tips for audio; How Writers Fail — Kris Rusch; Finishing energy; Sidekick for Shopify; Shadow Survey (please complete before 31 Aug 2023).










Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Rachael Herron is the internationally bestselling author of more than two dozen books, including thrillers, romance, memoir, and nonfiction about writing. She has taught writing at both UC Berkeley and Stanford, and now teaches authors online with courses and coaching, as well as through her podcast, How Do You Write.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Combining traditional and indie publishing



* Deciding which route to go with each project



* The locus of control with indie publishing



* Publishing a series — indie or trad?



* Pitching an agent as an already independently published author



* Differences in money between indie and trad publishing



* Tips for developing author friendships




You can find Rachael at RachaelHerron.com where you can find her latest course and Magic Query Letter.



Transcript of Interview with Rachael Herron



Joanna: Rachael Herron is the internationally bestselling author of more than two dozen books, including thrillers, romance, memoir, and nonfiction about writing.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 56:37
Writing Tips From The Movies With John Gaspard https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/10/writing-tips-from-the-movies-with-john-gaspard/ Mon, 10 Jul 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35509 <p>How can you exploit the unique in your stories, as well as amp up the conflict? John Gaspard gives writing and creative business tips based on movies and TV. In the intro, Meta launches Threads, the new Twitter-like app — you can follow me @jfpennauthor; Possible Podcast episode with Ethan Mollick; Moonshots and Mindsets podcast […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/10/writing-tips-from-the-movies-with-john-gaspard/">Writing Tips From The Movies With John Gaspard</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you exploit the unique in your stories, as well as amp up the conflict? John Gaspard gives writing and creative business tips based on movies and TV. In the intro, Meta launches Threads, the new Twitter-like app — you can follow me @jfpennautho... How can you exploit the unique in your stories, as well as amp up the conflict? John Gaspard gives writing and creative business tips based on movies and TV.



In the intro, Meta launches Threads, the new Twitter-like app — you can follow me @jfpennauthor; Possible Podcast episode with Ethan Mollick; Moonshots and Mindsets podcast about De-extinction; Copyright and AI with Kathryn Goldman; plus, adapting Catacomb to a screenplay, and I'm speaking in Paris in Oct.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






John Gaspard is the author of mysteries and nonfiction film books, a podcast host, and film director. His latest book is The Popcorn Principles: A Novelist's Guide to Learning from Movies.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How to “exploit the unique” to help our books stand out



* Ways to add more conflict, regardless of genre



* Creating a satisfying ending for your readers — and when cliffhangers are a good option



* Contracts and the importance of reading the fine print



* Thoughts on the best way to get your book onto the screen




You can find John and his books at AlbertsBridgeBooks.com and listen to his podcast Behind the Page: The Eli Marks Podcast



Transcript of Interview with John Gaspard



Joanna: John Gaspard is the author of mysteries and nonfiction film books, a podcast host, and film director. His latest book is The Popcorn Principles: A Novelist's Guide to Learning from Movies. So welcome to the show, John.



John: It is so great to be here. I'm such a fan. I'm going to try not to fanboy out on you.



Joanna: Oh, thank you so much.



John: The podcast has been so helpful for me as I've gone along this journey. You do a great job.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:00:45
9 Ways That Artificial Intelligence (AI) Will Disrupt Authors And The Publishing Industry. An Update With Joanna Penn And Nick Thacker https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/03/9-ways-that-artificial-intelligence-ai-will-disrupt-authors-and-the-publishing-industry-an-update-with-joanna-penn-and-nick-thacker/ Mon, 03 Jul 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35508 <p>Four years ago, in July 2019, I put out a podcast episode that went through the 9 disruptions I saw coming for authors and publishing in the next decade. It turns out that most are happening faster than even I expected. In this episode, Nick Thacker and I discuss some of the main points. In […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/07/03/9-ways-that-artificial-intelligence-ai-will-disrupt-authors-and-the-publishing-industry-an-update-with-joanna-penn-and-nick-thacker/">9 Ways That Artificial Intelligence (AI) Will Disrupt Authors And The Publishing Industry. An Update With Joanna Penn And Nick Thacker</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Four years ago, in July 2019, I put out a podcast episode that went through the 9 disruptions I saw coming for authors and publishing in the next decade. It turns out that most are happening faster than even I expected. In this episode, Four years ago, in July 2019, I put out a podcast episode that went through the 9 disruptions I saw coming for authors and publishing in the next decade. It turns out that most are happening faster than even I expected. In this episode, Nick Thacker and I discuss some of the main points.



In the intro, I go through other aspects of the nine ways (notes and links below), the USA Today Bestseller list is back; TikTok moves into eCommerce [The Verge]; and Orna Ross and I discuss generative AI for authors on the Self Publishing Advice Podcast.






This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.






Nick Thacker is the USA Today bestselling author of over 40 books, including thrillers, action-adventure, and nonfiction. He also helps indie authors through his courses, coaching, and also by working with Draft2Digital.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Enthusiasm for AI tools as part of the creative process



* Collaborating with AI as an author



* Using AI for tasks outside of your “zone of genius”



* How Draft2Digital may handle the explosion of content



* The future of generative search for book discoverability



* Creating audiobooks with voice clones



* Copyright issues around AI-generated content



* How to stay positive and what to focus on




You can find Nick at NickThacker.com



Overview of the 9 disruptions



Here’s the overview. These are in no particular order. Click here to read or listen to the original episode. You can also find more podcast episodes, articles etc here on my Future page.




* Non-fiction books, blog posts, and news articles will be written by AI [discussed with Nick below]



* Copyright law will be challenged as books are used to train AIs which then produ...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:16:22
Using Sudowrite For Writing Fiction With Amit Gupta https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/29/using-sudowrite-for-writing-fiction-with-amit-gupta/ Thu, 29 Jun 2023 06:33:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35506 <p>How can fiction authors use Sudowrite to assist with writing tasks they need help with? What functionality does Sudowrite have that will be useful to different types of writers? Amit Gupta gives his tips in this interview. I use and recommend Sudowrite as part of my creative process. You can try Sudowrite through my affiliate […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/29/using-sudowrite-for-writing-fiction-with-amit-gupta/">Using Sudowrite For Writing Fiction With Amit Gupta</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can fiction authors use Sudowrite to assist with writing tasks they need help with? What functionality does Sudowrite have that will be useful to different types of writers? Amit Gupta gives his tips in this interview. How can fiction authors use Sudowrite to assist with writing tasks they need help with? What functionality does Sudowrite have that will be useful to different types of writers? Amit Gupta gives his tips in this interview.



I use and recommend Sudowrite as part of my creative process. You can try Sudowrite through my affiliate link: www.TheCreativePenn.com/sudowrite






Amit Gupta is a science fiction writer, entrepreneur, and founder of Sudowrite, an AI-powered creative writing tool.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* What is Sudowrite and how can it help authors



* Using Story Engine to write faster



* How to train AI tools to write in your voice and style



* Dealing with criticism of using AI as a writer



* Possible legal issues when using AI tools as a collaborative approach



* Should authors discuss their AI usage?



* The changing view of AI tools as they become mainstream




You can find Amit and more about Sudowrite at Sudowrite.com



Transcript of Interview with Amit Gupta



Joanna: Amit Gupta is a science fiction writer, entrepreneur, and founder of Sudowrite, an AI-powered creative writing tool. So welcome back to the show, Amit.



Amit: Thanks, Joanna. Happy to be here.



Joanna: So you were last on the show two years ago in June 2021, when we talked more about your origin story. So we're just going to get straight into the topic today. So if people don't know—



What is Sudowrite? And how can it help authors?



Amit: Sure. Sudowrite is an AI writing partner for authors.



It's the first AI tool built specifically for writing fiction.



My co-founder, James and I, we're both writers ourselves, we began experimenting with writing with AI back in 2020. Initially, we built it to help us with some of the problems that we encountered ourselves, like getting unblocked or, for me, suggesting rich, evocative description, or automatically rewriting passages to improve pacing or conflict or tension, that kind of thing.



Over time, it's grown a lot as people have suggested new ideas. We have thousands of authors who are always kind of suggesting what we should be doing with it. So now, it also helps with a bunch of other things, like creating or fixing outlines, or writing dialogue, or even taking writers step by step from idea all the way to first draft with AI assistants.



So the way we think about it, musicians, photographers, filmmakers, other artists all have had powerful tools like Photoshop, or Final Cut Pro, and so on, to execute on their creative vision for decades now. And our ultimate goal here with Sudowrite, is to create something just as powerful as those tools,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 44:42
The Craft And Business Of Writing Non-Fiction Books With Stephanie Chandler https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/26/the-craft-and-business-of-writing-non-fiction-books-with-stephanie-chandler/ Mon, 26 Jun 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35507 <p>How can you stand out in a crowded market of non-fiction books? How can you build a business around your central topic? How can you deal with failure to move on to success? Stephanie Chandler shares her experience and tips. In the intro, HarperCollins and KKR make bids for Simon & Schuster [The Hotsheet]; more […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/26/the-craft-and-business-of-writing-non-fiction-books-with-stephanie-chandler/">The Craft And Business Of Writing Non-Fiction Books With Stephanie Chandler</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you stand out in a crowded market of non-fiction books? How can you build a business around your central topic? How can you deal with failure to move on to success? Stephanie Chandler shares her experience and tips. In the intro, How can you stand out in a crowded market of non-fiction books? How can you build a business around your central topic?



How can you deal with failure to move on to success? Stephanie Chandler shares her experience and tips.



In the intro, HarperCollins and KKR make bids for Simon & Schuster [The Hotsheet]; more details from the Indie Author Earnings report [ALLi]; Thoughts from SPS Live; Photo of my boxed set (in a box); Amazon launch their Generative AI Innovation Centre. My books related to this interview: Career Change, How to Write Non-Fiction, Your Author Business Plan, Public Speaking for Authors, Creatives, and Other Introverts.






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Stephanie Chandler is the author of multiple nonfiction books, a professional speaker, and CEO of the Nonfiction Authors Association and Writers Conference.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Changes in publishing and marketing for nonfiction authors over time and what still works



* How to stand out and build your community



* Content marketing and long-term marketing strategies



* Deciding what nonfiction book to write—should you stay in your lane?



* Letting go, quitting, and moving on



* Dealing with failure and using it to find the right direction for your writing — and your life



* How nonfiction authors can leverage their book to generate multiple streams of income



* The Nonfiction Authors Association and how it is useful to authors




You can find Stephanie at NonfictionAuthorsAssociation.com



Transcript of Interview with Stephanie Chandler

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:10:35
How Authors Can Use Bookfunnel To Reach Readers And Sell Direct With Damon Courtney https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/19/how-authors-can-use-bookfunnel-to-read-readers-and-sell-direct-with-damon-courtney/ Sun, 18 Jun 2023 23:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35505 <p>How can Bookfunnel help authors reach more readers, sell more books, and sell direct? Damon Courtney outlines features of Bookfunnel that you might not know about. In the intro, Hello Books and Written Word Media have joined forces for promo stacking; Call to Action (CTA) tips [ALLi]; my free Author Blueprint; Bundle for writers [Storybundle]. […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/19/how-authors-can-use-bookfunnel-to-read-readers-and-sell-direct-with-damon-courtney/">How Authors Can Use Bookfunnel To Reach Readers And Sell Direct With Damon Courtney</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can Bookfunnel help authors reach more readers, sell more books, and sell direct? Damon Courtney outlines features of Bookfunnel that you might not know about. In the intro, Hello Books and Written Word Media have joined forces for promo stacking; ... How can Bookfunnel help authors reach more readers, sell more books, and sell direct? Damon Courtney outlines features of Bookfunnel that you might not know about.



In the intro, Hello Books and Written Word Media have joined forces for promo stacking; Call to Action (CTA) tips [ALLi]; my free Author Blueprint; Bundle for writers [Storybundle].



Plus, Paul McCartney is using AI to create a new and final Beatles song [The Guardian]; Boosting creativity, AI, and book cover design [Damonza]; Storytel has invested in ElevenLabs and the possibility of voice switching [Publishing Perspectives]; The Ethical Writers Guide to Harnessing the Power of AI: Using AI with Integrity – HJ Philips; my live AI webinars.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener amongst other software, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Damon Courtney is a fantasy author, entrepreneur, and founder of BookFunnel.com, which I consider one of my must-use tools as part of my author business.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show notes




* Damon's journey to creating BookFunnel



* The struggles of sharing Reader Magnets and ‘side-loading' before BookFunnel



* How to use BookFunnel for list building



* More BookFunnel features — Gift a Book, ARC delivery and Print Codes



* Author Swaps vs Group Promotions



* Tips for using BookFunnel for direct sales



* The benefits of going wide with audiobooks




You can find Damon at BookFunnel.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:11:19
Novel Marketing And Christian Publishing With Thomas Umstattd Jr. https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/12/novel-marketing-and-christian-publishing-with-thomas-umstattd-jr/ Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35464 <p>What are some of the most effective ways to market your book? What strategies have remained the same despite the rise of new tactics? What are the best ways to reach a Christian audience? Thomas Umstattd Jr. gives plenty of tips in this interview. In the intro, Freedom, fame, or fortune — what do you […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/12/novel-marketing-and-christian-publishing-with-thomas-umstattd-jr/">Novel Marketing And Christian Publishing With Thomas Umstattd Jr.</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are some of the most effective ways to market your book? What strategies have remained the same despite the rise of new tactics? What are the best ways to reach a Christian audience? Thomas Umstattd Jr. gives plenty of tips in this interview. What are some of the most effective ways to market your book? What strategies have remained the same despite the rise of new tactics?



What are the best ways to reach a Christian audience? Thomas Umstattd Jr. gives plenty of tips in this interview.



In the intro, Freedom, fame, or fortune — what do you want as an author?;
Built to Move: The Ten Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully by Kelly and Juliet Starrett; and my AI for authors webinars, plus Audio for Authors: Audiobooks, Podcasting, and Voice Technologies, and money books.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 







Thomas Umstattd Jr. is the CEO of AuthorMedia.com, an award-winning professional speaker, nonfiction author, and host of the Novel Marketing Podcast and the Christian Publishing Show.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The fundamentals of marketing fiction



* Content marketing for fiction



* Utilizing the nonfiction themes beneath your fiction for marketing



* The hallmarks and history of Christian publishing



* Why readers choose certain genres



* Tips for pitching a podcast




You can find Thomas at AuthorMedia.com and listen to his podcasts at NovelMarketing.com and ChristianPublishingShow.com



Transcript of Interview with Thomas Umstattd Jr.



Joanna: Thomas Umstattd Jr. is the CEO of authormedia.com, an award-winning professional speaker, nonfiction author, and host of the Novel Marketing Podcast and the Christian Publishing Show. So welcome to the show, Thomas.



Thomas: Thanks, Joanna. It's great to be here.



Joanna: Oh, yes. It's exciting to talk to you. But first up—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and podcasting, and now running a business for writers.



Thomas: So back when I was in college, I started writing a book, as many college students do. I went to a writers' conference to sell my book,]]> Joanna Penn full false 1:04:36 Writing Your Transcendent Change: Memoir With Marion Roach Smith https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/05/writing-your-transcendent-change-memoir-with-marion-roach-smith/ Mon, 05 Jun 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35478 <p>Memoir can be one of the most challenging forms to write, but it can also be the most rewarding. Marion Roach Smith talks about facing your fears, as well as giving practical tips on structuring and writing your memoir. In the intro, Amazon's category changes [KDP Help; Kindlepreneur; Publisher Rocket]; Book description generation with AI; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/06/05/writing-your-transcendent-change-memoir-with-marion-roach-smith/">Writing Your Transcendent Change: Memoir With Marion Roach Smith</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Memoir can be one of the most challenging forms to write, but it can also be the most rewarding. Marion Roach Smith talks about facing your fears, as well as giving practical tips on structuring and writing your memoir. In the intro, Memoir can be one of the most challenging forms to write, but it can also be the most rewarding. Marion Roach Smith talks about facing your fears, as well as giving practical tips on structuring and writing your memoir.



In the intro, Amazon's category changes [KDP Help; Kindlepreneur; Publisher Rocket]; Book description generation with AI; Thoughts on New Zealand and how the river forks; AI is about to turn book publishing upside down [Publishers Weekly]; Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable – Nassim Nicholas Taleb.



Plus, Japan and copyright for AI training; Microsoft rolls out Designer to Teams; Google Docs text generation with Bard [Ethan Mollick]; Photoshop and generative fill [NY Times]; Drug discovery with AI [BBC; Alpha Fold]; Amazon generative search job listing [Venture Beat]; ChatGPT official app; My webinars on using AI.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Marion Roach Smith is an author, memoir coach and teacher of memoir writing. She has online courses on writing memoir and hosts the Qwerty Podcast about memoir. Her books include The Memoir Project: A Thoroughly Non-Standardized Text for Writing & Life.



You can listen above or on https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35420 <p>What are the crucial linchpin moments in your novel and how can you keep a reader turning the pages? John Fox gives fiction writing tips in this interview. In the intro, writing and publishing across multiple genres [Ask ALLi]; Pilgrimage and solo walking [Women Who Walk]; My live webinars on using AI tools as an […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/29/crafting-your-novels-key-moments-with-john-matthew-fox/">Crafting Your Novel’s Key Moments With John Matthew Fox</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the crucial linchpin moments in your novel and how can you keep a reader turning the pages? John Fox gives fiction writing tips in this interview. In the intro, writing and publishing across multiple genres [Ask ALLi]; Pilgrimage and solo walk... What are the crucial linchpin moments in your novel and how can you keep a reader turning the pages? John Fox gives fiction writing tips in this interview.



In the intro,
writing and publishing across multiple genres [Ask ALLi]; Pilgrimage and solo walking [Women Who Walk]; My live webinars on using AI tools as an author; Cowriting with ChatGPT: AI-Powered Storytelling by J. Thorn.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






John Matthew Fox is an award-winning short story writer, a developmental editor, writing teacher and blogger. His latest book is The Linchpin Writer: Crafting Your Novel's Key Moments.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Writing a book based on a blog — what needs to change?



* Linchpin moments and why they are important



* How to write emotionally moving stories



* The difference between scenes and chapters



* How to write wonder



* Writing better endings



* Using AI tools when writing fiction and editing




You can find John at TheJohnFox.com or on TikTok @johnmatthewfox. John has courses for writers here.



Transcript of Interview with John Matthew Fox



Joanna: John Matthew Fox is an award-winning short story writer, a developmental editor, writing teacher and blogger. His latest book is The Linchpin Writer: Crafting Your Novel's Key Moments. So welcome back to the show, John.



John: Thank you, so wonderful to be back.



Joanna: Yes, indeed. Just in case people don't know you—



Tell us a bit more about how you got into writing and publishing.



John: I started my blog way back in the day, 2006, just to join the literary conversation. And over time, it evolved from a blog on literary news and commentary into more of a craft blog,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 52:29
Writing Novels Inspired By Place With Tony Park https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/22/writing-novels-inspired-by-place-with-tony-park/ Mon, 22 May 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35419 <p>How can we write about places that inspire us in an authentic way even when they are not our own country? Tony Park gives his tips for writing setting, and also outlines how his publishing experience has changed over the last two decades. In the intro, KDP printing costs are changing from 20 June; plus, […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/22/writing-novels-inspired-by-place-with-tony-park/">Writing Novels Inspired By Place With Tony Park</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we write about places that inspire us in an authentic way even when they are not our own country? Tony Park gives his tips for writing setting, and also outlines how his publishing experience has changed over the last two decades. How can we write about places that inspire us in an authentic way even when they are not our own country? Tony Park gives his tips for writing setting, and also outlines how his publishing experience has changed over the last two decades.



In the intro, KDP printing costs are changing from 20 June; plus, join me for AI for Writers online webinars.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 







Tony Park is the author of 20 thriller novels set in Africa, as well as the co-writer of several biographies.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How Tony's publishing experience has changed over two decades



* Splitting territories when licensing your rights and tips for rights reversion



* Tips for writing setting and how it incorporates into all aspects of your book



* Research and avoiding stereotypes



* Writing outside of your own country and personal experience



* Balancing writing a compelling story with advocating for a cause (without lecturing)




You can find Tony at TonyPark.net



Transcript of Interview with Tony Park



Joanna: Tony Park is the author of 20 thriller novels set in Africa, as well as the co-writer of several biographies. So welcome, Tony.



Tony: Oh, Joanna, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I really appreciate it. I'm a huge fan.



Joanna: Thank you so much. First off—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing.



Tony: Look, it might sound a bit cliche, but it's absolutely true, that the only thing I ever wanted to do in life, from the time I was a little boy growing up in Sydney, in Australia, was to write a book.



My family weren't particularly well off, and my mum was working two jobs and used to leave us in the library after school. I just thought, wouldn't it be cool if this could be your job to write books. Of course, as we all know, listening to this podcast, it's not like you can wake up one day and say, okay, I'm going to write a book, and publish it, and away we go.



I loved writing as a kid. I wasn't any good at English or maths at school, and so I pinned my hopes on writing. After I left school, I got a job working in local newspapers, and that cemented my love of writing. Then I just tried and tried and tried. I had a number of false starts over the years as my life progressed....]]>
Joanna Penn full false 56:23
Making Art From Life. Mental Health For Writers With Toby Neal https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/15/making-art-from-life-mental-health-for-writers-with-toby-neal/ Mon, 15 May 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35421 <p>What are some of the common mental health issues that writers face? How can we use writing to help us process our problems, and turn our life into art through our books? Author and mental health therapist Toby Neal shares her thoughts and tips. It's Mental Health Awareness Week here in the UK with a […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/15/making-art-from-life-mental-health-for-writers-with-toby-neal/">Making Art From Life. Mental Health For Writers With Toby Neal</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are some of the common mental health issues that writers face? How can we use writing to help us process our problems, and turn our life into art through our books? Author and mental health therapist Toby Neal shares her thoughts and tips. What are some of the common mental health issues that writers face? How can we use writing to help us process our problems, and turn our life into art through our books? Author and mental health therapist Toby Neal shares her thoughts and tips.



It's Mental Health Awareness Week here in the UK with a special focus on anxiety, which so many of us experience in different ways. Get 20% off The Healthy Writer, The Relaxed Author and The Successful Author Mindset on my store using discount code: HEALTH.



In the introduction, Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity by Dr Peter Attia; Menopausing by Davina McCall; Ultimate Guide to Selling Print Books Online [ALLi]; TikTok publishing? [TechCrunch]; Google rolling out generative AI, Duet for Workspace; Generative Search, Marketing Against the Grain podcast; Did we consent to our data training generative AI? [The Author Analyst]; Writing memoir & Pilgrimage.






Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.







Toby Neal is the award-winning USA Today best-selling author of mysteries, thrillers, and romance, with over 40 titles, as well as writing memoir and travel. She's also a mental health therapist, which is what we're talking about today.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Common mental health challenges for authors



* Tips for dealing with post-COVID anxiety



* Dealing with the overwhelm of social media



* Journaling as a tool to help process and make sense of our lives



* Writing as a way to turn life into art



* Tracking self-care

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 57:14
Intentionality, Beauty, and Authorship. Co-Writing With AI With Stephen Marche https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/12/intentionality-beauty-and-authorship-co-writing-with-ai-with-stephen-marche/ Fri, 12 May 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35450 <p>AI tools can generate words, but the human intention behind it, as well as the skill of the author, drives the machine. Stephen Marche talks about the creative process behind Death of an Author, 95% written by AI, out now from Pushkin Industries. Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/12/intentionality-beauty-and-authorship-co-writing-with-ai-with-stephen-marche/">Intentionality, Beauty, and Authorship. Co-Writing With AI With Stephen Marche</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> AI tools can generate words, but the human intention behind it, as well as the skill of the author, drives the machine. Stephen Marche talks about the creative process behind Death of an Author, 95% written by AI, out now from Pushkin Industries. AI tools can generate words, but the human intention behind it, as well as the skill of the author, drives the machine. Stephen Marche talks about the creative process behind Death of an Author, 95% written by AI, out now from Pushkin Industries.






Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Stephen Marche is a Canadian novelist and journalist. He's also the creator of Death of an Author by Aiden Marchine, a novella written 95% by AI tools out now from Pushkin Industries.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* How Stephen co-created Death of an Author with various AI tools: ChatGPT, Sudowrite, and Cohere



* The importance of specificity in prompts and why those who know what they want, and have experience with writing and different forms of literature have an advantage



* Why the intellectual process is more important than the mechanical process



* Why co-creating with AI tools is like being a hip-hop producer



* On copyright: “I am its author legally, but a machine wrote it based on my instructions.”



* How authors might approach co-creating with AI if they want to work with traditional publishers



* What remains the same despite advances in technology: “Creative AI is going to change everything. It's also going to change nothing.”




Death of an Author is out now from Pushkin Industries in audiobook and ebook formats. The press release also has more details about the process, and there is an Afterword in the book where Stephen goes into more detail. You can find Stephen at StephenMarche.com



Header image created on Midjourney by Joanna Penn.



Transcript of the interview



Joanna Penn: Stephen Marche is a Canadian novelist and journalist. He's also the creator of Death of an Author by Aiden Marchine, a novella written 95% by AI tools out now from Pushkin Industries. So welcome to the show, Stephen.



Stephen Marche: Hi, how are you?



Joanna Penn: I am good. So first up, tell us a bit more about you and your writing background and how you came to become interested in AI.



Stephen Marche: Well, am I speaking to a robot at this moment?



Joanna Penn: No. No!



Stephen Marche: Okay. I just had a sudden sense that I was, I don't know why but like,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 33:17
Generative AI And The Indie Author Community With Michael Anderle And Dan Wood https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/08/generative-ai-and-the-indie-author-community-with-michael-anderle-and-dan-wood/ Sun, 07 May 2023 23:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35449 <p>What are the implications of generative AI for the indie author community? How can we make choices for our own creative business while respecting the decisions of others? Dan Wood (Draft2Digital) and Michael Anderle (20BooksTo50K, LMBPN) and I discuss our recommendations for the way forward. In the intro, Ingram Spark offers free title setup and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/08/generative-ai-and-the-indie-author-community-with-michael-anderle-and-dan-wood/">Generative AI And The Indie Author Community With Michael Anderle And Dan Wood</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the implications of generative AI for the indie author community? How can we make choices for our own creative business while respecting the decisions of others? Dan Wood (Draft2Digital) and Michael Anderle (20BooksTo50K, What are the implications of generative AI for the indie author community? How can we make choices for our own creative business while respecting the decisions of others? Dan Wood (Draft2Digital) and Michael Anderle (20BooksTo50K, LMBPN) and I discuss our recommendations for the way forward.



In the intro, Ingram Spark offers free title setup and revisions (up to 60 days); Findaway Voices cuts Spotify distribution fee; Lessons learned from selling a million books; Go Wide or Run Away or Amazon Fail by Kris Rusch; Reputation Revolution Podcast; Pilgrimage is out on every store and in every format; Cover design split testing with Pickfu; A Note from the Author by Kevin Tumlinson.











This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.



Michael Anderle (LMBPN), Joanna Penn (The Creative Penn), and Dan Wood (DRaft2Digital) at London Book Fair, April 2023


Dan Wood is the COO of Draft2Digital, which helps authors self-publish alongside excellent support.



Michael Anderle is the award-nominated internationally bestselling author of more than 40 urban fantasy and science fiction novels. He's also the co-author of many more with other authors under his company LMBPN Publishing. Michael is also the founder of the 20 Books to 50 K Facebook group and community.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Why generative AI offers opportunities for authors



* Michael explains his audacious publishing goal and breaks down how it could be achieved across multiple formats and languages, along with the help of generative AI



* Tackling some of the fears and anxieties that authors have — flood of content, quality, marketing competition, copyright, and more


]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:04:22
The AI-Assisted Artisan Author With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artisan-author/ Fri, 05 May 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35448 <p>What is the AI-Assisted Artisan Author? How can we use AI tools in our creative and business processes while still keeping our humanity at the core of our books? As generative AI development continues apace and new possibilities emerge every week, the focus of AI discussions in the author community has been centered around productivity […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artisan-author/">The AI-Assisted Artisan Author With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What is the AI-Assisted Artisan Author? How can we use AI tools in our creative and business processes while still keeping our humanity at the core of our books? As generative AI development continues apace and new possibilities emerge every week, What is the AI-Assisted Artisan Author? How can we use AI tools in our creative and business processes while still keeping our humanity at the core of our books?



As generative AI development continues apace and new possibilities emerge every week, the focus of AI discussions in the author community has been centered around productivity gains and high-volume output; copyright, plagiarism and piracy; and the fear of losing the artistic human aspect of being an author. 



But there is much to be excited about if we can move past fear and doubt, and approach these tools with curiosity and a sense of wonder. We are only at the beginning of the opportunities of AI for wider society as well as for creativity and art, and it’s important that authors, writers, and other creatives be involved in order to shape the future as we want it to be.



In this article, I’ll outline the concept of the AI-Assisted Artisan Author, which is how I intend to surf the wave of change ahead, rather than drown in the deluge.






Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller and dark fantasy author as J.F. Penn. She has sold almost a million books across 169 countries and 5 languages. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. Her latest book is Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* Acknowledge the risks and understand the human response to change



* How generative AI has made me re-examine my self-definition



* Adopt an AI-curious attitude



* What is an AI-Assisted Artisan Author (or A4 for short)?  



* Create beautiful books and products



* Double down on being human



* Write the books only you can write and include personal elements that can only come from you



* Foster connection and community with other humans



* Sell direct so readers connect you, the human, with your books (and other products)



* How to move forward




You can find more future-focused episodes here.







Acknowledge the risks and understand the human response to change



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 51:39
Excellent Advice For Living With Kevin Kelly https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/01/excellent-advice-for-living-with-kevin-kelly/ Mon, 01 May 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35278 <p>How can we build a creative life based on following our curiosity? What are some important attitudes to hold that will help us with a sustainable life and career? Kevin Kelly shares some Excellent Advice for Living. In the intro, author newsletter tips [BookBub]; Mark Dawson's 20+ year writing journey; Thoughts on 20Books Seville and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/01/excellent-advice-for-living-with-kevin-kelly/">Excellent Advice For Living With Kevin Kelly</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we build a creative life based on following our curiosity? What are some important attitudes to hold that will help us with a sustainable life and career? Kevin Kelly shares some Excellent Advice for Living. In the intro, How can we build a creative life based on following our curiosity? What are some important attitudes to hold that will help us with a sustainable life and career? Kevin Kelly shares some Excellent Advice for Living.



In the intro, author newsletter tips [BookBub]; Mark Dawson's 20+ year writing journey; Thoughts on 20Books Seville and London Book Fair with me and Orna Ross [Ask ALLi]; HarperCollins is testing AI-generated content, reported by Jane Friedman [The Hotsheet].






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna







Kevin Kelly is the New York Times bestselling author of multiple books, including The Inevitable, Cool Tools, and Vanishing Asia, as well as being a Technologist Senior Maverick at Wired Magazine and co-chair of the Long Now Foundation. His latest book Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Following your curiosity for an interesting, long-term, project-based career



* Experiencing different cultures and the creative process



* Creating art as “imperfect beings”



* Letting your author voice emerge instead of finding it



* Reasons for optimism for writers with generative AI



* Why 1000 true fans is still relevant




You can find Kevin Kelly at KK.org or on socials @Kevin2Kelly



Header image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Kevin Kelly



Joanna: Kevin Kelly is the New York Times bestselling author of multiple books, including The Inevitable, Cool Tools, and Vanishing Asia, as well as being a Technologist Senior Maverick at Wired Magazine and co-chair of the Long Now Foundation. His latest book Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier. So welcome to the show, Kevin.



Kevin: Oh, I'm really delighted to be here.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:08:58
Book Marketing: How To Get Publicity For Your Book With Halima Khatun https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/24/book-marketing-how-to-get-publicity-for-your-book-with-halima-khatun/ Mon, 24 Apr 2023 06:15:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35326 <p>How can publicity form part of your book marketing strategy? How can you research the best media and craft a pitch or a press release that might get you and your book some attention? Why is publicity still useful in an age of pay-per-click direct advertising? Halima Khatun shares her valuable tips and experience. In […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/24/book-marketing-how-to-get-publicity-for-your-book-with-halima-khatun/">Book Marketing: How To Get Publicity For Your Book With Halima Khatun</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can publicity form part of your book marketing strategy? How can you research the best media and craft a pitch or a press release that might get you and your book some attention? Why is publicity still useful in an age of pay-per-click direct adver... How can publicity form part of your book marketing strategy? How can you research the best media and craft a pitch or a press release that might get you and your book some attention? Why is publicity still useful in an age of pay-per-click direct advertising? Halima Khatun shares her valuable tips and experience.



In the intro, Alliance of Independent Authors Indie Author Income Survey results; Experience of book to TV show [and previous episode, Johnny B Truant's creative pivots]; Michael Anderle expands on his AI-assisted goals [20Books To 50K Facebook]; Loop earplugs.



Plus, Build for Tomorrow: An Action Plan for Embracing Change, Adapting Fast, and Future-Proofing your Career by Jason Feifer; The future of publishing is now on the Dialogue Doctor podcast; Content vs connection [Jay Acunzo on Twitter]; Why I'm focusing on being an AI-assisted artisan author; Death of an Author, from Pushkin Press.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Halima Khatun is the award-winning author of romantic comedy novels, including The Secret Diary of an Arranged Marriage. Today we're talking about her nonfiction book, Priceless Publicity: How to get money-can't-buy media coverage for your business.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Halima's writing and PR journey



* Finding the “story behind the story”



* Pitching your story from different angles



* Balancing PR and protecting personal stories/privacy



* Tailoring your press release



* How to prepare for an interview



* Is PR worth it?




You can find Halima at HalimaKhatun.co.uk



Transcript of Interview with Halima Khatun



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:09:01
The Challenges Of Small Press Publishing With Jon Barton https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/17/the-challenges-of-small-press-publishing-with-jon-barton/ Mon, 17 Apr 2023 06:12:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35293 <p>What are the most important aspects of becoming a successful publisher? Jon Barton talks about his lessons learned and how to avoid the pitfalls. In the intro, Amazon AWS Bedrock for generative AI; Impromptu: Amplifying our Humanity Through AI by Reid Hoffman and co-written with GPT4; reflections on the fantastic 20BooksSpain Seville conference; Ideas and […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/17/the-challenges-of-small-press-publishing-with-jon-barton/">The Challenges Of Small Press Publishing With Jon Barton</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the most important aspects of becoming a successful publisher? Jon Barton talks about his lessons learned and how to avoid the pitfalls. In the intro, Amazon AWS Bedrock for generative AI; Impromptu: Amplifying our Humanity Through AI by Reid ... What are the most important aspects of becoming a successful publisher? Jon Barton talks about his lessons learned and how to avoid the pitfalls.



In the intro, Amazon AWS Bedrock for generative AI; Impromptu: Amplifying our Humanity Through AI by Reid Hoffman and co-written with GPT4; reflections on the fantastic 20BooksSpain Seville conference; Ideas and execution by Hugh Howey; The Creator Economy course; AI Cover Design for Authors;






Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.







Jon Barton is the founder and managing director of the award-winning independent publisher Vertebrate Publishing, as well as the author of several bestselling mountain biking guides.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Challenges in publishing other people's works



* The ecosystem of Vertebrate Publishing



* Pivoting business models



* Sticking to a niche and why it works



* Tips for pitching to a publisher



* RRP royalty rate vs. net royalty rate



* Understanding contracts and seeking outside advice




You can find Jon and Vertebrate Publishing at AdventureBooks.com



Transcript of Interview with Jon Barton



Joanna: Jon Barton is the founder and managing director of the award-winning independent publisher Vertebrate Publishing, as well as the author of several bestselling mountain biking guides. So welcome to the show, Jon.



Jon: Hi, Jo. How goes it?



Joanna: Good. I'm excited to talk to you today.



First up, tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.



Jon: Well, the one thing that's worth knowing about me is I've never had a CV and never been to a job interview, I'm older than I sound as well. I discovered rock climbing when I was probably 13 or 14, and that's pretty much all I did until I was about 30.



In fact, when I met my wife and I was about 31, 32, and she just presumed I'd been working for a decade and had savings and houses and all the rest of i...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:18:36
How To Use ProWritingAid To Improve Your Writing With Chris Banks https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/14/how-to-use-prowritingaid-to-improve-your-writing-with-chris-banks/ Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:20:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35294 <p>You cannot see many of the problems with your own writing, as you are so close to the manuscript. ProWritingAid can help you self-edit your work before you take it on to a human editor, so they can focus on the bigger issues. In this episode, Chris Banks, the CEO of ProWritingAid talks about how […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/14/how-to-use-prowritingaid-to-improve-your-writing-with-chris-banks/">How To Use ProWritingAid To Improve Your Writing With Chris Banks</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> You cannot see many of the problems with your own writing, as you are so close to the manuscript. ProWritingAid can help you self-edit your work before you take it on to a human editor, so they can focus on the bigger issues. In this episode, You cannot see many of the problems with your own writing, as you are so close to the manuscript. ProWritingAid can help you self-edit your work before you take it on to a human editor, so they can focus on the bigger issues.



In this episode, Chris Banks, the CEO of ProWritingAid talks about how developments in AI have added functionality to the software to help writers even more.



If you'd like to support the podcast, you can use my affiliate link, www.TheCreativePenn.com/prowritingaid and check out my tutorial here. Or you can just go to ProWritingAid.com.






Chris Banks is the CEO and founder of ProWritingAid, which has over 1.5 million users worldwide.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* The key benefits of ProWritingAid



* The evolution of grammar tools as technology accelerates



* Skepticism about using AI tools in your writing and how to overcome it



* AI tools as a creative companion



* Can using AI tools lead to plagiarism?



* Problems with tools that ‘detect' AI-generated writing



* Why this is such an exciting time for creatives




You can find Chris at ProWritingAid.com



Transcript of Interview with Chris Banks



Chris: Chris Banks is the CEO and founder of ProWritingAid, which has over 1.5 million users worldwide, including myself. So welcome back to the show, Chris.



Thanks, Joanna. It's a pleasure to be here.



Joanna: Oh, yes. We were talking before about how we're so excited right now about all the things going on. But before we look forward—



Let's just tell people a bit more about ProWritingAid.



So if anyone doesn't know it, can you give us just a brief overview of some of the key benefits?



Chris: Yes. Well, the tool basically is designed to make writing fun and easy. We try and do all of the heavy lifting and take away the difficult bits of writing. So all of the kind of boring bits that you might struggle with, all of the things that take a lot of time and don't bring you any joy, ProWritingAid is designed to help you get rid of those and to make your life a lot easier and fun.



Joanna: And just some of the specifics. So I use it for editing, and it does things like pick up my terrible comma usage and some of my passive language, which I always use. Anything else that you think is commonly used by authors?



Chris: Yes, I think I designed the tool to help myself and to criticize myself, to find all of the mistakes that I was making when I was writing. I think when you're doing a first draft, I always think of the first draft as a  quote by Shannon Hale, where “you're just piling up sand so that later you can build castles out of it.”
]]>
Joanna Penn full false 38:45
Writing Nature Memoir With Merryn Glover https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/10/writing-nature-memoir-with-merryn-glover/ Mon, 10 Apr 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35292 <p>How can we bring a place alive in our writing? How can we tackle the challenges of writing different types of books at different times in our writing career? Merryn Glover talks about her experience in this episode. In the intro, Kobo launches Kobo Plus in the US and UK; Amazon is closing Book Depository; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/10/writing-nature-memoir-with-merryn-glover/">Writing Nature Memoir With Merryn Glover</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can we bring a place alive in our writing? How can we tackle the challenges of writing different types of books at different times in our writing career? Merryn Glover talks about her experience in this episode. In the intro, How can we bring a place alive in our writing? How can we tackle the challenges of writing different types of books at different times in our writing career? Merryn Glover talks about her experience in this episode.



In the intro, Kobo launches Kobo Plus in the US and UK; Amazon is closing Book Depository; Amazon layoffs in devices and books; end of Kindle newsstand; Moonshots and Mindsets with Emad Mostaque; Futureproof: 9 Rules for Humans in the Age of Automation by Kevin Roose.



Plus, the tools and services I use in my author business; Get 15% off any of my books, digital or print, bundles or individual books — valid for one purchase per customer — use PODCAST15 at checkout on CreativePennBooks.com.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Merryn Glover is the award-winning author of historical fiction and narrative nonfiction nature books, as well as writing plays and radio drama. Her latest book is The Hidden Fires: A Cairngorms Journey with Nan Shepherd.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Writing a book based on someone else's work



* How Nan Shepherd's books started in obscurity and later became well-known



* Hallmarks of the nature writing genre



* Legality of using someone else's name and works in your novel, copyright, and permissions needed



* The process of writing a sense of place



* Radio drama and dramatic adaptations of written works



* How to deal with a failed publisher




You can find Merryn at MerrynGlover.com or on Twitter @MerrynGlover



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:01:24
Legal Aspects Of Generative AI And Copyright With Kathryn Goldman https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/03/legal-aspects-of-generative-ai-and-copyright-with-kathryn-goldman/ Sun, 02 Apr 2023 23:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35331 <p>As generative AI tools continue to expand the possibilities for creators, what does this mean for aspects of copyright? Intellectual property lawyer, Kathryn Goldman, talks about the possible ramifications. In the intro, Ben's Bites newsletter, Microsoft Co-Pilot for Office tools [The Verge]; Canva Create AI-powered design tools; Adobe Firefly for generative images; OpenAI ChatGPT Plugins […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/04/03/legal-aspects-of-generative-ai-and-copyright-with-kathryn-goldman/">Legal Aspects Of Generative AI And Copyright With Kathryn Goldman</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> As generative AI tools continue to expand the possibilities for creators, what does this mean for aspects of copyright? Intellectual property lawyer, Kathryn Goldman, talks about the possible ramifications. In the intro, Ben's Bites newsletter, As generative AI tools continue to expand the possibilities for creators, what does this mean for aspects of copyright? Intellectual property lawyer, Kathryn Goldman, talks about the possible ramifications.



In the intro, Ben's Bites newsletter, Microsoft Co-Pilot for Office tools [The Verge]; Canva Create AI-powered design tools; Adobe Firefly for generative images; OpenAI ChatGPT Plugins including Shopify; Examples of people using ChatGPT in normal life [Hard Fork]; Sam Altman on Lex Fridman podcast.



Plus, US AI copyright guidance; Human Artistry Campaign; New rules of publishing [Becca Syme]; Tsunami of crap + double down on being human; Generating fiction with GPT-4 [Medium]; Pause giant AI experiments letter; The age of AI has begun [Bill Gates];






This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.







Kathryn Goldman is a copyright and trademark attorney and has worked in intellectual property for over 30 years. She runs CreativeLawCenter.com, which offers resources, workshops, and advice for creative professionals, including authors, artists, designers, and more.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* The perils and promise of AI in creative works



* Some of the legal cases against aspects of generative AI ...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:18:58
Lessons Learned And Tips From Pilgrimage, My First Kickstarter Campaign https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/27/lessons-learned-and-tips-from-pilgrimage-my-first-kickstarter-campaign/ Mon, 27 Mar 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35112 <p>My Kickstarter campaign for my travel memoir, Pilgrimage, funded within minutes and raised over £26,000 (over US$31,000) for a niche book in a new market. In this episode, I share my lessons learned and tips for a successful campaign. In the intro, I mention the 6 Figure Author Podcast, The Writers Well Podcast, and Reid […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/27/lessons-learned-and-tips-from-pilgrimage-my-first-kickstarter-campaign/">Lessons Learned And Tips From Pilgrimage, My First Kickstarter Campaign</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> My Kickstarter campaign for my travel memoir, Pilgrimage, funded within minutes and raised over £26,000 (over US$31,000) for a niche book in a new market. In this episode, I share my lessons learned and tips for a successful campaign. In the intro, My Kickstarter campaign for my travel memoir, Pilgrimage, funded within minutes and raised over £26,000 (over US$31,000) for a niche book in a new market. In this episode, I share my lessons learned and tips for a successful campaign.



In the intro, I mention the 6 Figure Author Podcast, The Writers Well Podcast, and Reid Hoffman's new Possible podcast.










Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna







Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller and dark fantasy author as J.F. Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. Her latest book is Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show notes:




* Overview of the Pilgrimage campaign including rewards, add-ons, and the result



* Why Kickstarter for this project, and why now for me



* Tips for success: Learn about the platform beforehand. It is a new ecosystem for authors and different from those we are used to



* Prepare to face your fears



* The importance of getting your costs right in terms of production and international shipping



* Set aside more time than you need



* How did I market the campaign?



* Was it worth it? Will I do another Kickstarter campaign?



* What happens to Pilgrimage now?




If you want to stay in touch, sign up for my free Author Blueprint here, subscribe to The Creative Penn podcast on your favorite app, or follow me on social media.



Twitter

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:23:32
Prolific Writing, Diversification, And Using Emerging Technologies With Joseph Nassise https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/20/prolific-writing-diversification-and-using-emerging-technologies-with-joseph-nassise/ Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35291 <p>If you want a long-term successful career as an author, you need to learn the craft and the business of writing. Joseph Nassise talks about his writing process, how he diversifies his business across different publishers, different products, and different technologies, as well as how he is embracing new options for his books. In the […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/20/prolific-writing-diversification-and-using-emerging-technologies-with-joseph-nassise/">Prolific Writing, Diversification, And Using Emerging Technologies With Joseph Nassise</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> If you want a long-term successful career as an author, you need to learn the craft and the business of writing. Joseph Nassise talks about his writing process, how he diversifies his business across different publishers, different products, If you want a long-term successful career as an author, you need to learn the craft and the business of writing. Joseph Nassise talks about his writing process, how he diversifies his business across different publishers, different products, and different technologies, as well as how he is embracing new options for his books.



In the intro, Draft2Digital opens up Print for everyone; Future Today Institute Trends report; Microsoft introduces the AI-powered 365 Co-pilot; Google unveils generative AI tools; Ethical AI Publishing newsletter from Monica Leonelle.



Plus, pictures from Wales on Instagram @jfpennauthor and Facebook @jfpennauthor; my new craft course on Writing Setting and Sense of Place; With a Demon's Eye on my store, and everywhere else.










Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.







Joseph Nassise is the award-nominated New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of more than 50 books across horror, urban fantasy, supernatural thrillers, as well as epic fantasy and Arthurian mythos under other pen names.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* The story of how Joseph's first book became a success



* Deciding between the traditional or indie route for individual projects



* Diversification and creating multiple streams of income from your intellectual property



* StoryCraft — Tips for learning how to write a commercial novel and publish/sell it



* Why create NFT editions of your book



* The future of NFTs and how they will become normalized



* Using generative AI as part of your creative process

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:08:41
Writing Fiction With Sudowrite With Leanne Leeds https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/17/writing-fiction-with-sudowrite-with-leanne-leeds/ Fri, 17 Mar 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35269 <p>We all use tools to help us improve our skills, and in this episode, Leanne Leeds explains how she uses the generative AI tool, Sudowrite, to write better books and serve her readership more effectively. In the intro, OpenAI launches GPT4, and how it can be used for accessibility with Be My Eyes. Other tools […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/17/writing-fiction-with-sudowrite-with-leanne-leeds/">Writing Fiction With Sudowrite With Leanne Leeds</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> We all use tools to help us improve our skills, and in this episode, Leanne Leeds explains how she uses the generative AI tool, Sudowrite, to write better books and serve her readership more effectively. In the intro, OpenAI launches GPT4, We all use tools to help us improve our skills, and in this episode, Leanne Leeds explains how she uses the generative AI tool, Sudowrite, to write better books and serve her readership more effectively.



In the intro, OpenAI launches GPT4, and how it can be used for accessibility with Be My Eyes. Other tools include ProWritingAid's Rephrase, and upcoming GrammarlyGo, plus keep up with the news on AI with Ben's Bites and/or The Algorithmic Bridge.



You can find Sudowrite through my affiliate link at www.TheCreativePenn.com/sudowrite, and I also have a tutorial on how I use Sudowrite here.






This podcast is sponsored by Written Word Media, which makes book marketing a breeze by offering quick, easy and effective ways for authors to promote their books. You can also subscribe to the Written Word Media email newsletter for book marketing tips.







Leanne Leeds is the author of 27 novels across contemporary paranormal, fantasy and midlife cozy mystery. She also uses AI tools as part of her creative process, which is what we're talking about today.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* What is Sudowrite?



* Incorporating Sudowrite into your creative process



* Using AI tools to help improve certain aspects of your writing



* AI tools for beginners, and how to use them better



* Common objections to using AI tools



* Potential legal issues (or non-issues) around AI



* How AI will change how we market our books




You can find Leanne Leeds at LeanneLeeds.com and her articles on Sudowrite tips at https://blog.sudowrite.com/



You can find Sudowrite through my affiliate link at www.TheCreativePenn.com/sudowrite, and I also have a tutorial on how I use Sudowrite here.



Transcript of Interview with Leanne Leeds



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 47:04
Content For Everyone: Accessibility For Authors With Jeff Adams https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/13/content-for-everyone-accessibility-for-authors-with-jeff-adams/ Mon, 13 Mar 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35270 <p>Writers and readers are a diverse bunch, and we all want to do our best to make sure our content is accessible to all. But how do we do that when it seems like a huge (and time-consuming) challenge for an individual creator? Jeff Adams gives some tips for getting started. In the intro, making […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/13/content-for-everyone-accessibility-for-authors-with-jeff-adams/">Content For Everyone: Accessibility For Authors With Jeff Adams</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Writers and readers are a diverse bunch, and we all want to do our best to make sure our content is accessible to all. But how do we do that when it seems like a huge (and time-consuming) challenge for an individual creator? Writers and readers are a diverse bunch, and we all want to do our best to make sure our content is accessible to all. But how do we do that when it seems like a huge (and time-consuming) challenge for an individual creator? Jeff Adams gives some tips for getting started.



In the intro, making as marketing [Ryan Holiday]; Enter awards but make sure they are worthwhile [ALLi; Reedsy; BookAwardPro]; The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Jeff Adams is the author of YA thrillers and gay romance, as well as the co-host of The Big Gay Fiction Podcast with his husband and business partner, Will. Jeff's latest book is Content for Everyone, A Practical Guide for Creative Entrepreneurs to Produce Accessible and Usable Web Content, co-written with Michele Lucchini.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Staying involved in the author community when you're not writing



* What is accessible content? Why is it important?



* How to address the associated cost of making content more accessible



* Using alternative text tags on images



* Improving link text to be more descriptive



* How screen readers process emojis and image text—and how to improve this



* Tips for improving accessibility of print books



* Publishing in multiple formats to improve accessibility




You can find Jeff at JeffAdamsWrites.com, his podcast at BigGayFictionPodcast.com, and his latest book at ContentForEveryone.info



Header image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Jeff Adams



Jeff: Jeff Adams is the author of YA thrillers and gay romance, as well as the co-host of The Big Gay Fiction Podcast with his husband and business partner, Will. Jeff's latest book is Content for Everyone,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 57:29
Writing And Investing For A Long Term Indie Author Career With Lindsay Buroker https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/06/writing-and-investing-for-a-long-term-indie-author-career-with-lindsay-buroker/ Mon, 06 Mar 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35268 <p>What are the core fundamentals of a successful independent author business? How can you focus on writing, as well as sell more books, and stay healthy? Prolific fantasy author Lindsay Buroker shares her tips. In the intro, YouTube gets into audio-only podcasts; Seth Godin's book marketing for The Song of Significance; How to make more […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/03/06/writing-and-investing-for-a-long-term-indie-author-career-with-lindsay-buroker/">Writing And Investing For A Long Term Indie Author Career With Lindsay Buroker</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the core fundamentals of a successful independent author business? How can you focus on writing, as well as sell more books, and stay healthy? Prolific fantasy author Lindsay Buroker shares her tips. In the intro, What are the core fundamentals of a successful independent author business? How can you focus on writing, as well as sell more books, and stay healthy? Prolific fantasy author Lindsay Buroker shares her tips.



In the intro, YouTube gets into audio-only podcasts; Seth Godin's book marketing for The Song of Significance; How to make more money than the average author [Ask ALLi]; Independent author income survey from ALLi; The Authors Guild updated their model contract with a new clause: No Generative AI Training Use.



Plus, my photos from Washington D.C.; I'm on the Write Now with Scrivener Podcast; Pictures from signing hardbacks at Bookvault in Peterborough.






Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.







Lindsay Buroker is the author of over 100 books across epic fantasy, urban fantasy, science fiction, fantasy, romance, and more.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How Lindsay's current business works, and how she's ready to pivot and is considering other things, like Kickstarter



* The core fundamentals for a long-term author business



* What changes and what stays the same



* Pros and cons of writing under a pen name



* Dealing with negative feedback



* Investing, and thinking about the future for our intellectual property




You can find Lindsay at LindsayBuroker.com and listen to the backlist at https://6figureauthors.com/.



Header image created by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Lindsay Buroker



Joanna: Lindsay Buroker is the author of over 100 books across epic fantasy, urban fantasy, science fiction, fantasy, romance, and more. So welcome back to the show, Lindsay.



Lindsay: Hey, thanks for having me.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:02:51
How To Build A Seven Figure Book Business Selling Direct To Readers With Pierre Jeanty https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/27/how-to-build-a-seven-figure-book-business-selling-direct-to-readers-with-pierre-jeanty/ Mon, 27 Feb 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35267 <p>Write and publish what you want, get paid every day for your books, and control your customer data and relationships. It's possible if you sell direct, as Pierre Jeanty talks about in this interview. In the intro, the author income survey [ALLi]; publishing clauses to avoid [Writer Unboxed; Writer Beware]; copyright registration for AI-assisted comic […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/27/how-to-build-a-seven-figure-book-business-selling-direct-to-readers-with-pierre-jeanty/">How To Build A Seven Figure Book Business Selling Direct To Readers With Pierre Jeanty</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Write and publish what you want, get paid every day for your books, and control your customer data and relationships. It's possible if you sell direct, as Pierre Jeanty talks about in this interview. In the intro, Write and publish what you want, get paid every day for your books, and control your customer data and relationships. It's possible if you sell direct, as Pierre Jeanty talks about in this interview.



In the intro, the author income survey [ALLi]; publishing clauses to avoid [Writer Unboxed; Writer Beware]; copyright registration for AI-assisted comic Zarya of the Dawn [Process Mechanics]; tips for writing with AI [Self Publishing Show]; my Sudowrite tutorial.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna







Pierre Jeanty is a poet and inspirational author, publisher and entrepreneur. He specializes in selling through Shopify and teaches authors his methods through 7figurebookbusiness.com.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How Pierre started selling direct early, and how sales on other stores like Amazon happen even when he focuses on selling to Shopify first



* The importance of changing your mindset



* Flipping the business model to selling direct first



* Changes in the indie zeitgeist with more authors wanting more independence



* Best ways to market your Shopify store



* Separating your store by brand and genre




You can find Pierre Jeanty at PierreJeanty.com or 7figurebookbusiness.com



Transcript of Interview with Pierre Jeanty



Pierre: Pierre Jeanty is a poet and inspirational author, publisher and entrepreneur. He specializes in selling through Shopify, and teaches authors his methods through 7figurebookbusiness.com, which I can highly recommend, and I'm personally going through at the moment. So welcome, Pierre.



Thank you. Thank you for having me, Joanna.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:04:55
The Tsunami Of Crap, Misinformation, And Responsible Use Of AI With Tim Boucher https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/24/the-tsunami-of-crap-misinformation-and-responsible-use-of-ai-with-tim-boucher/ Fri, 24 Feb 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35266 <p>After many years of people saying, “AI can never be creative, AI could never write fiction (i.e. make things up), it's now evident that the generative AI tools make a lot up — and we need to be aware of the potential ramifications. How can we use the tools to achieve our creative purpose in […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/24/the-tsunami-of-crap-misinformation-and-responsible-use-of-ai-with-tim-boucher/">The Tsunami Of Crap, Misinformation, And Responsible Use Of AI With Tim Boucher</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> After many years of people saying, “AI can never be creative, AI could never write fiction (i.e. make things up), it's now evident that the generative AI tools make a lot up — and we need to be aware of the potential ramifications. After many years of people saying, “AI can never be creative, AI could never write fiction (i.e. make things up), it's now evident that the generative AI tools make a lot up — and we need to be aware of the potential ramifications.



How can we use the tools to achieve our creative purpose in an ethical manner, and understand that we need to curate, edit, and take responsibility for any usage? How can we educate ourselves and others on the way these AI models work? Tim Boucher and I have a challenging, wide-ranging discussion in this interview.



In the intro, I comment on ‘A concerning trend of AI-generated submissions' to short story market, Clarkesworld, and the ‘tsunami of crap' all over again [JA Konrath], and how we can use AI tools in a responsible manner.



Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Tim Boucher is a hyperrealist AI artist and writer specializing in questionable alternative realities. He's worked professionally in content moderation policy, and counter-disinformation efforts on behalf of a major web platform, a blockchain protocol. And he has advised nonprofits and governments on related issues



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* How Tim started writing and publishing, and why he decided to experiment with AI tools for images and words



* Misinformation by humans and AI hallucinations, how we need to fact check , edit, curate, and manage outputs — and how these can be used in fiction



* Tim's AI-collaborative creative process and the tools he uses for words and images



* Labeling and ethical use of AI [see the Alliance of Independent Authors guidelines here]



* Why Tim uses Gumroad to sell direct and doesn't publish on Amazon



* How authors need to engage with the technology, experiment, and learn to stand out in an ever-increasingly crowded market




You can find Tim at TimBoucher.ca and his books at LostBooks.gumroad.com



Header image created by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.







Introduction: Addressing the flood of AI-generated content/books



In this introductory section, I want to talk about some of the news items that have arisen this week, and that fit into this episode very well.



From the headlines this week,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:10:14
Co-Writing In A Shared Universe And Changing Indie Business Models With Martha Carr https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/20/co-writing-in-a-shared-universe-and-changing-indie-business-models-with-martha-carr/ Mon, 20 Feb 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35132 <p>How can you create a universe big enough for multiple series? How can you co-write successfully? How can you pivot your business model to achieve your creative, financial, and lifestyle goals? Martha Carr talks about these things and more. In the intro, Simon & Schuster is back up for sale [Reuters, Episode 662 with Jane […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/20/co-writing-in-a-shared-universe-and-changing-indie-business-models-with-martha-carr/">Co-Writing In A Shared Universe And Changing Indie Business Models With Martha Carr</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you create a universe big enough for multiple series? How can you co-write successfully? How can you pivot your business model to achieve your creative, financial, and lifestyle goals? Martha Carr talks about these things and more. How can you create a universe big enough for multiple series? How can you co-write successfully? How can you pivot your business model to achieve your creative, financial, and lifestyle goals? Martha Carr talks about these things and more.



In the intro, Simon & Schuster is back up for sale [Reuters, Episode 662 with Jane Friedman]; The New Gatekeepers report [Ben Evans]; Marvellous Maps.






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Martha Carr is the best-selling author of over 200 urban fantasy novels. Her newest series, Queen of the Flightless Dragons, will be coming out on Kickstarter in May 2023 with Book One, Eamon.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The mindset shift when switching from traditional to indie publishing



* How to take notes, and then turn those notes into books



* How to know when an idea is big enough for a universe



* Rules to follow when creating different series arcs within a universe



* Pros and cons of co-writing



* Establishing contracts and protecting intellectual property when co-writing



* How the business model is continually changing for indie authors



* Kickstarter and why it is valuable to growing your audience




You can find Martha Carr at MarthaCarr.com



Header image created by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Martha Carr



Joanna: Martha Carr is the best-selling author of over 200 urban fantasy novels. Her newest series, Queen of the Flightless Dragons, will be coming out on Kickstarter in May 2023 with Book One, Eamon. So welcome to the show, Martha.



Martha: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for asking me.



Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you. So first up—



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and self-publishing.



Martha: So I started writing actually, shoot, about 35 years ago,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 56:59
Book Marketing Mindset, Ideas, And Ambition With Honoree Corder https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/13/book-marketing-mindset-ideas-and-ambition-with-honoree-corder/ Mon, 13 Feb 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35131 <p>How can you embrace book marketing as a creative part of your author business? How can you effectively market your backlist over time? How can you tap into ambition and drive your author business onward and upward? Honoree Corder talks about all this and more. In the intro, Draft2Digital add a new library marketplace [D2D]; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/13/book-marketing-mindset-ideas-and-ambition-with-honoree-corder/">Book Marketing Mindset, Ideas, And Ambition With Honoree Corder</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you embrace book marketing as a creative part of your author business? How can you effectively market your backlist over time? How can you tap into ambition and drive your author business onward and upward? How can you embrace book marketing as a creative part of your author business? How can you effectively market your backlist over time? How can you tap into ambition and drive your author business onward and upward? Honoree Corder talks about all this and more.



In the intro, Draft2Digital add a new library marketplace [D2D]; Running a publishing house is not as much fun as it used to be [Mike Shatzkin]; Microsoft launches the new Bing with ChatGPT-style co-pilot, and soon to be rolled out in other products like MS Word, Teams, etc [The Verge]; My future of publishing talk, 22 Feb [register here]; Thanks for joining the Pilgrimage Kickstarter, and pre-order on other stores; Superstars writing conference.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Honoree Corder is the author of over 50 books, with more than 4.5 million sold worldwide. She's also a strategic book coach, professional speaker, and host of the Empire Builders Mastermind. Her latest book is, You Must Market Your Book: Increase Your Impact, Sell More Books, and Make More Money.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* The book marketing mindset and why it is important



* Scheduling creative time vs. business time



* How to find the book marketing options that work for your personality



* Email marketing and how it has stayed consistent over the years



* Marketing your backlist books effectively



* How personal development can help your author business




You can find Honoree at HonoreeCorder.com



Transcript of Interview with Honoree Corder



Joanna: Honoree Corder is the author of over 50 books, with more than 4.5 million sold worldwide. She's also a strategic book coach, professional speaker, and host of the Empire Builders Mastermind. Her latest book is, You Must Market Your Book: Increase Your Impact, Sell More Books,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:03:01
Writing Choctaw Characters And Diversity In Fiction With Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/06/writing-choctaw-characters-and-diversity-in-fiction-with-sarah-elisabeth-sawyer/ Mon, 06 Feb 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35130 <p>Who are the Choctaw people and how can authors write authentic Native Americans in their books? How can we research diverse characters and include a diverse cast without worrying about cancel culture? Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer talks about how her Choctaw heritage influences her books. In the intro, the Pilgrimage Kickstarter is done — thanks to […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/02/06/writing-choctaw-characters-and-diversity-in-fiction-with-sarah-elisabeth-sawyer/">Writing Choctaw Characters And Diversity In Fiction With Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Who are the Choctaw people and how can authors write authentic Native Americans in their books? How can we research diverse characters and include a diverse cast without worrying about cancel culture? Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer talks about how her Choctaw ... Who are the Choctaw people and how can authors write authentic Native Americans in their books? How can we research diverse characters and include a diverse cast without worrying about cancel culture? Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer talks about how her Choctaw heritage influences her books.



In the intro, the Pilgrimage Kickstarter is done — thanks to all backers and I'll be in touch soon; With a Demon's Eye on my store and pre-order elsewhere; Opportunities in 2023 [Ask ALLi Podcast].






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn






Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer is a historical fiction author, speaker, course creator and Choctaw storyteller. The Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian honored her as a literary artist for her work in preserving Choctaw Trail of Tears stories, and she is the creator of the Fiction Writing: American Indians digital course.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Who are the Choctaw people?



* How to include representation without being stereotypical



* Researching cultural callbacks to include in your writing



* How to use oral history from tribes in your research



* Writing diverse characters outside of our personal experience



* Creating well-rounded characters when writing diversity




You can find Sarah at ChoctawSpirit.com or her course at AmericanIndians.FictionCourses.com



Image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer



Joanna: Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer is a historical fiction author, speaker, course creator and Choctaw storyteller. The Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian honored her as a literary artist for her work in preserving Choctaw Trail of Tears stories. And she is the creator of the Fiction Writing: American Indians digital course. So welcome to the show, Sarah.



Sarah: Thank you, Joanna. Halito. Sv hohchifo yvt Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer. Chahta Sia Hoke. Hi, everyone. My name is Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer, and I am Choctaw. And it's just such a delight to be on your podcast, Joanna.



Joanna: I love that. And of course, we have listeners from over 200 countries.



Perhaps you can first explain, what is Choctaw,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 50:02
The Empowerment Of Selling Books Direct To Your Readers With Steve Pieper https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/30/the-empowerment-of-selling-books-direct-to-your-readers-with-steve-pieper/ Mon, 30 Jan 2023 06:10:43 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35076 <p>What are the benefits of selling direct? Why might using your face to advertise your books be a good idea? What might be the future of selling direct? Steve Pieper talks about these things and more. In the intro, ACX lowering audiobook prices, Chokepoint Capitalism, Audiblegate, Copyright valuation [Dean Wesley Smith]; courses on copyright; Happy […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/30/the-empowerment-of-selling-books-direct-to-your-readers-with-steve-pieper/">The Empowerment Of Selling Books Direct To Your Readers With Steve Pieper</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the benefits of selling direct? Why might using your face to advertise your books be a good idea? What might be the future of selling direct? Steve Pieper talks about these things and more. In the intro, ACX lowering audiobook prices, What are the benefits of selling direct? Why might using your face to advertise your books be a good idea? What might be the future of selling direct? Steve Pieper talks about these things and more.



In the intro, ACX lowering audiobook prices, Chokepoint Capitalism, Audiblegate, Copyright valuation [Dean Wesley Smith]; courses on copyright; Happy Money; Write to Riches; Failing to predict the future [James Altucher]; Pilgrimage Kickstarter (until 5 Feb, 2023), then find it here.






Today's show is sponsored by ProWritingAid, writing and editing software that goes way beyond just grammar and typo checking. With its detailed reports on how to improve your writing and integration with Scrivener, ProWritingAid will help you improve your book before you send it to an editor, agent or publisher. Check it out for free or get 25% off the premium edition at www.ProWritingAid.com/joanna






Steve Pieper is a USA Today best-selling thriller author under the name Lars Emmerich. He's also an entrepreneur and business consultant, specializing in digital marketing and selling direct.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Reasons to write under a pen name



* Selling wide to create multiple income streams



* Potential problems with exclusivity



* Benefits of selling direct and accessing customer data



* The empowerment of controlling your intellectual property and author business



* Humanizing yourself as an author to create a more relatable brand



* Author marketing mastery through optimization



* NFTs and how they tie into the future of direct sales




You can find Steve Pieper at AMMOauthor.com or under his pen name at Lars.buzz



Transcript of Interview with Steve Pieper



Joanna: Steve Pieper is a USA Today best-selling thriller author under the name Lars Emmerich.]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:03:42
Writing Travel Memoir, Fear Of Judgment, Fear Of Failure, And Journaling With J.F. Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/28/writing-travel-memoir-fear-of-judgment-fear-of-failure-and-journaling-with-j-f-penn/ Sat, 28 Jan 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35204 <p>What do you need to consider when writing travel memoir? How fear of judgment and fear of failure are real issues even for established authors, and more in these selected excerpts from interviews with J.F. Penn around Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways. In this episode, I talk about: I have a […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/28/writing-travel-memoir-fear-of-judgment-fear-of-failure-and-journaling-with-j-f-penn/">Writing Travel Memoir, Fear Of Judgment, Fear Of Failure, And Journaling With J.F. Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What do you need to consider when writing travel memoir? How fear of judgment and fear of failure are real issues even for established authors, and more in these selected excerpts from interviews with J.F. Penn around Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from S... What do you need to consider when writing travel memoir? How fear of judgment and fear of failure are real issues even for established authors, and more in these selected excerpts from interviews with J.F. Penn around Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways.



In this episode, I talk about:




* How Pilgrimage fits across several sub-categories of the travel genre and the perils of writing cross-genre 



* Fear of sharing personal aspects in the memoir, fear of launch, fear of failure, fear of judgment, and being terrified of doing a Kickstarter (recorded several days before the launch)



* How journals can be the basis of writing a travel memoir, structuring a book around theme, and why you have to think of the reader




Jo Frances Penn with Pilgrimage


I have a Kickstarter running as this goes out for my new travel memoir / solo walking book, Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Ways, and I’ve been doing interviews on the topic on various shows, so I wanted to share some snippets.



It might also introduce you to new shows that you might enjoy and you can find them all on your podcast app, wherever you’re listening to this. The clips are from Travel Writing World, Wish I’d Known Then, and Sacred Steps, and I was also on Into the Woods.



I’ve included different clips on my Books and Travel Podcast, more about the walking than the writing side, so you can also listen there. 



I also wanted to let you know that we reached the stretch goal — even though I was scared of not making it!






All backers will get an extra audio with a transcript on how I turned hundreds of pages of hand-written journal entries and hundreds of photos into a finished travel memoir.



This will only go to backers, so even if you’re not that interested in pilgrimage, you might want my tips on writing travel memoir, and you can back the campaign with just a few pounds. 



Just go to JFPenn.com/pilgrimage and that will redirect to the Kickstarter until 5 Feb, after which it will take you to where the book will be available later in the year. So let’s get into it. 







In this clip from the Travel Writing World podcast with Jeremy Bassetti, I talk about how Pilgrimage is sits across different sub-genres of the travel niche. 




J.F. Penn – Pilgrimage and Perspective




Transcript of the clip from Travel Writing World

]]>
Joanna Penn full false 22:46
The Importance Of Confident Creative Direction, Voice, And Taste, In Generative AI Art With Oliver Altair https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/26/the-importance-of-confident-creative-direction-voice-and-taste-in-generative-ai-art-with-oliver-altair/ Thu, 26 Jan 2023 05:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35129 <p>How can you use AI tools to ethically and responsibly create in whatever sphere you love? What are some of the tools and why are creative direction, voice, and taste, so important? I discuss these issues and more in a solo introduction and an interview with Oliver Altair. In the first 28 mins of the […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/26/the-importance-of-confident-creative-direction-voice-and-taste-in-generative-ai-art-with-oliver-altair/">The Importance Of Confident Creative Direction, Voice, And Taste, In Generative AI Art With Oliver Altair</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you use AI tools to ethically and responsibly create in whatever sphere you love? What are some of the tools and why are creative direction, voice, and taste, so important? I discuss these issues and more in a solo introduction and an interview... How can you use AI tools to ethically and responsibly create in whatever sphere you love? What are some of the tools and why are creative direction, voice, and taste, so important? I discuss these issues and more in a solo introduction and an interview with Oliver Altair.



In the first 28 mins of the podcast, I give an extended introduction about the various legal cases around AI and copyright, my thoughts on the best way to approach it for your creative work, and how to use AI tools ethically and responsibly. I've included the transcript below with lots of links and further resources, and you can find more at TheCreativePenn.com/future.



If you'd like to learn more, you can get 50% off my ebook and audiobook on Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain, and Virtual Worlds if you buy direct, and you can get 50% off my course, The AI-Assisted Author. Just use discount code: FEB23 at checkout for either.






Today's show is sponsored by my wonderful patrons who fund my brain so I have time to think about and discuss these futurist topics impacting authors. If you support the show, you also get the extra monthly patron-only Q&A audio. You can support the show at www.patreon.com/thecreativepenn






Oliver Altair is a dark fantasy author, a digital artist and creator of the Ravensfield Collection.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. The interview starts at 28:33 mins.



Show Notes




* The creation of the Ravensfield Collection using AI art



* How AI art can be used as a marketing tool for authors



* Available tools for an AI-augmented creative



* How to write AI prompts to achieve the best results



* Concerns about intellectual property when training models



* What are the different kinds of Creative Commons licenses?



* The importance of creative confidence, voice, and taste, for making art with AI tools



* Generative writing tools as a brainstorming co-pilot




You can find Oliver Altair at OliverAltair.com. You can view the Ravensfield Collection at Ravensfield.art.



Header image by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.







Transcript of the solo introduction on generative AI with Joanna Penn



Before we get into the interview, I just want to add some over-arching comments as I’m getting a lot of emails about generative AI for art and obviously for words.



It feels like a lot of people are going through now what I did a few years back when I first heard about all this,]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:13:05
Multi-Six Figure Book Sales And The Power Of Daily Habits With Marc Reklau https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/23/multi-six-figure-book-sales-and-the-power-of-daily-habits-with-marc-reklau/ Mon, 23 Jan 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35117 <p>How can small, daily habits make you more successful as an author? How can you use the 80/20 rule in your author business? How can you create multiple streams of income when you sell mostly print? Marc Reklau shares his tips in the interview. In the intro, my Kickstarter for Pilgrimage is live!; Spotify's promotion […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/23/multi-six-figure-book-sales-and-the-power-of-daily-habits-with-marc-reklau/">Multi-Six Figure Book Sales And The Power Of Daily Habits With Marc Reklau</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can small, daily habits make you more successful as an author? How can you use the 80/20 rule in your author business? How can you create multiple streams of income when you sell mostly print? Marc Reklau shares his tips in the interview. How can small, daily habits make you more successful as an author? How can you use the 80/20 rule in your author business? How can you create multiple streams of income when you sell mostly print? Marc Reklau shares his tips in the interview.



In the intro, my Kickstarter for Pilgrimage is live!; Spotify's promotion codes [The Hotsheet, FindawayVoices]; publishing 2023 [Carly Watters]; Writer Beware round-up; Hitting bestseller lists [Reedsy; my USA Today breakdown]; Mark Dawson's Ads for Authors; Nick Thacker's dictation course;






Today's podcast sponsor is Findaway Voices, which gives you access to the world's largest network of audiobook sellers and everything you need to create and sell professional audiobooks. Take back your freedom. Choose your price, choose how you sell, choose how you distribute audio. Check it out at FindawayVoices.com.






Marc Reklau is the best-selling author of 13 books on habits, productivity and happiness. He's also a speaker, consultant and coach.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* The importance of consistency to reach your goals



* Different streams of income as a nonfiction author



* Creating a series from your nonfiction books to increase sales



* How to make money in foreign language markets



* Taking your books wide to expand your income streams



* Why successful authors sell more books than struggling authors




You can find Marc at MarcReklau.com



Transcript of Interview with Mark Reklau



Joanna: Marc Reklau is the best-selling author of 13 books on habits, productivity and happiness. He's also a speaker, consultant and coach. So welcome to the show, Marc.



Marc: Hello. It's such a pleasure to be on your show, Joanna.



Joanna: Oh, I'm excited to talk to you. So first up —



Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing.



Marc: Yeah, that's a good story. Because actually, I never had it in my life plan to become a wri...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:11:26
Intuitive Writing And Book Marketing With Becca Syme https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/16/intuitive-writing-and-book-marketing-with-becca-syme/ Mon, 16 Jan 2023 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35077 <p>Do you sometimes just ‘know' when a story is right? Does something ‘click' during the writing process and suddenly things make sense? Do you lean into your curiosity and emotion when it comes to writing and marketing? If yes, you might be an intuitive writer, as Becca Syme explains in this interview. In the intro, […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/16/intuitive-writing-and-book-marketing-with-becca-syme/">Intuitive Writing And Book Marketing With Becca Syme</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Do you sometimes just ‘know' when a story is right? Does something ‘click' during the writing process and suddenly things make sense? Do you lean into your curiosity and emotion when it comes to writing and marketing? If yes, Do you sometimes just ‘know' when a story is right? Does something ‘click' during the writing process and suddenly things make sense? Do you lean into your curiosity and emotion when it comes to writing and marketing? If yes, you might be an intuitive writer, as Becca Syme explains in this interview.



In the intro, Chokepoint Capitalism [Decoder]; Direct sales [Kris Rusch]; Amazon Ads for Authors by Ricardo Fayet; Ads for Authors course; Why I Ignored Target Reader Feedback for my Book Cover Design; ChatGPT for teachers [Hard Fork]; Pilgrimage Kickstarter.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. You can find my books for authors and my fiction here on Kobo.






Becca Syme is an author, coach, and creator of the Better-Faster Academy. She is a USA Today bestselling author of small-town romance and cozy mystery and also writes the ‘Dear Writer' series of non-fiction books.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* How a writer knows if they are intuitive



* The data-gathering process of intuitive writers



* Learning to apply feedback while trusting your intuition



* Knowing when it's the right time to write your book



* Standing out in a crowded market by using your intuition



* Tips for avoiding burnout to have a sustainable author career



* Why we make decisions based on fear — and how to stop




You can find Becca at BetterFasterAcademy.com or on her QuitCast on YouTube



Image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.
]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:10:21
How To (Finally) Finish Your Book With Roz Morris https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/09/how-to-finally-finish-your-book-with-roz-morris/ Mon, 09 Jan 2023 06:15:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35043 <p>What are the most common reasons why writers don't finish their books —and how can you overcome them in order to finish yours this year? Roz Morris gives practical writing and mindset tips. In the intro, Spotify promo codes [FindawayVoices]; Rachael Herron's money episode [How Do You Write?]; Changes at Amazon [Kris Writes, BBC]; AI […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/09/how-to-finally-finish-your-book-with-roz-morris/">How To (Finally) Finish Your Book With Roz Morris</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What are the most common reasons why writers don't finish their books —and how can you overcome them in order to finish yours this year? Roz Morris gives practical writing and mindset tips. In the intro, Spotify promo codes [FindawayVoices]; Rachael He... What are the most common reasons why writers don't finish their books —and how can you overcome them in order to finish yours this year? Roz Morris gives practical writing and mindset tips.



In the intro, Spotify promo codes [FindawayVoices]; Rachael Herron's money episode [How Do You Write?]; Changes at Amazon [Kris Writes, BBC]; AI as a writing co-pilot [Stark Reflections]; Hindenburg Narrator for audiobook mastering; Pilgrimage audiobook chapters [Books and Travel].






Today's show is sponsored by Ingram Spark, which I use to print and distribute my print-on-demand books to 40,000 retailers including independent bookstores, schools and universities, libraries, and more. It's your content—do more with it through IngramSpark.com.






Roz Morris is a best-selling author as a ghostwriter and an award-nominated author with her own literary novels. She writes writing craft books for authors under the Nail Your Novel brand, and is also an editor, speaker and writing coach.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.



Show Notes




* The most common reasons that writers abandon books



* Creating a system for your creative process



* Finding the motivation to finish your book even when it gets tough



* The importance of research to help you keep going



* How to commit to finishing one project when you have multiple started



* Staying confident when you start doubting your book



* Knowing when to park a project




You can find Roz at RozMorris.org



Transcript of Interview with Roz Morris



Joanna: Roz Morris is a best-selling author as a ghostwriter and an award nominated author with her own literary novels. She writes writing craft books for authors under the Nail Your Novel brand, and is also an editor, speaker and writing coach.



Today, we're talking about why writers abandon books and how you can draft, fix and finish with confidence. And we'll have tips for both fiction and nonfiction authors. So welcome back to the show, Roz.



Roz: Thank you, Joanna. It's so nice to be here again.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:00:45
How To Use Paid Advertising As Part Of Your Book Marketing With Mark Dawson https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/06/how-to-use-paid-advertising-as-part-of-your-book-marketing-with-mark-dawson/ Fri, 06 Jan 2023 06:10:42 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35075 <p>How can you use paid advertising as part of your book marketing strategy? How can you reach more readers and sell more books in the year ahead? Mark Dawson provides strategies and tips in this interview. In the intro, publishing trends for 2023 [Written Word Media]; Apple AI narration; ChatGPT into Bing [The Verge]; Comments […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/06/how-to-use-paid-advertising-as-part-of-your-book-marketing-with-mark-dawson/">How To Use Paid Advertising As Part Of Your Book Marketing With Mark Dawson</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> How can you use paid advertising as part of your book marketing strategy? How can you reach more readers and sell more books in the year ahead? Mark Dawson provides strategies and tips in this interview. In the intro, How can you use paid advertising as part of your book marketing strategy? How can you reach more readers and sell more books in the year ahead? Mark Dawson provides strategies and tips in this interview.



In the intro, publishing trends for 2023 [Written Word Media]; Apple AI narration; ChatGPT into Bing [The Verge]; Comments on Audible [Brandon Sanderson, Audiblegate]; TikTok ban and problems [Reuters, Rolling Stone]; my Pilgrimage Kickstarter.






Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, where you can get free ebook formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Get your free Author Marketing Guide at draft2digital.com/penn







Mark Dawson is the award-winning USA Today best-selling author of the John Milton series and other thrillers, with over 6 million copies sold. He's also the co-founder of SelfPublishingFormula.com, with books, courses and events for indie authors who want to sell more books.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* How advertising has changed in the past decade



* The difference between paid advertising and other forms of marketing



* Why building your mailing list can be your best free advertising option



* Is it worth it to advertise a standalone book?



* Different ways to monetize your brand to make ads profitable



* What is the biggest mistake indie authors make with advertising?



* The effect of Apple's privacy rules on Facebook ads



* Using AI to create more and sell more




You can find Mark at MarkJDawson.com and SelfPublishingFormula.com.



Image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of Interview with Mark Dawson



Joanna: Mark Dawson is the award-winning USA Today best-selling author of the John Milton series and other thriller...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 1:01:26
My 2023 Creative and Business Goals With Joanna Penn https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/01/my-2023-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/ Sun, 01 Jan 2023 06:15:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=34840 <p>Happy New Year 2023! I am more excited than ever this year about the books I want to write and publish. I've had a difficult few years (haven't we all?!) but now I'm ready to create at full throttle in 2023, aided by the incredible AI-powered tools emerging for writers. Here's an overview of my […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/01/01/my-2023-creative-and-business-goals-with-joanna-penn/">My 2023 Creative and Business Goals With Joanna Penn</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Happy New Year 2023! I am more excited than ever this year about the books I want to write and publish. I've had a difficult few years (haven't we all?!) but now I'm ready to create at full throttle in 2023, Happy New Year 2023!



I am more excited than ever this year about the books I want to write and publish.



I've had a difficult few years (haven't we all?!) but now I'm ready to create at full throttle in 2023, aided by the incredible AI-powered tools emerging for writers.



Here's an overview of my 2023 goals:




* J.F. Penn — Pilgrimage (and my first Kickstarter); Catacomb book, ARKANE 13, and some short stories



* Joanna Penn — The Shadow Book (and maybe another Kickstarter), The Creator Economy for Authors, and maybe The AI-Assisted Author



* Continue The Creative Penn Podcast



* Experiment with futurist technologies and share what I learn with you along the way



* More digital, more physical. Focus on optimizing my health, and do more in-person travel and events.



* Financial goals




As ever, I am a full-time author-entrepreneur and this is my job, so I have a lot of goals. If your goals are simpler — like finishing your book, or publishing for the first time, or selling 1000 copies, then fantastic! You don’t have to have such extensive goals as me.



Please share your goals in the comments so we can keep each other accountable.







J.F. Penn — Kickstarter for Pilgrimage with a special signed hardback edition



I have finished Pilgrimage and am currently narrating the audiobook as well as formatting the print edition.



It's a very personal book, and so I want to do a special signed hardback edition that won't be available anywhere else.



The best way to do that is to know how many people want to buy it, so I can order the books, have them shipped here, sign them, and then send them out myself.



So I'm (finally) going to do a Kickstarter!



Click here to sign up for the pre-launch list (no commitment to buy)



You'll be notified of the campaign when it launches on 23 Jan, 2023.



The Kickstarter will also have the ebook and audiobook (narrated by me), as well as the special edition hardback (signed and unsigned available), a special edition paperback edition (POD, not signed) and a Pilgrimage workbook, with guided prompts so you can plan your own pilgrimage.



My plan is to sell direct through the Kickstarter, and then put the books in all formats (except for the special edition hardback) up on my store, www.CreativePennBooks.com and available everywhere wide a month later.



character and setting Images for the Catacomb book, generated by joanna penn on midjourney



J.F. Penn — Write and publish the ‘catacomb' book, ARKANE #13, and some short stories — and maybe other fiction



The catacomb book is a stand-alone story I have had on my mind for a while, and I want to get it out of my head and onto the page. I'm not sure if it's a novel or a novella yet.



At the end of Tomb of Relics, ARKANE #12, I left Morgan and Jake heading to Vienna for the next adventure, but until recently, I didn't know what they would find there.



]]>
Joanna Penn full false 23:00
Review Of My 2022 Creative Business Goals https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2022/12/30/review-of-my-2022-creative-business-goals/ Fri, 30 Dec 2022 06:10:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=34924 <p>Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals. I hope you will take the time to review your goals, and leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to? You can read my 2022 goals here and I reflect on what I […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2022/12/30/review-of-my-2022-creative-business-goals/">Review Of My 2022 Creative Business Goals</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals. I hope you will take the time to review your goals, and leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to? Another year ends, and once more, it's time to reflect on our creative goals. I hope you will take the time to review your goals, and leave a comment below about how the year went. Did you achieve everything you wanted to?



You can read my 2022 goals here and I reflect on what I achieved below.




* Books for authors — Joanna Penn



* Fiction as J.F. Penn — thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, horror, short stories



* Shift to the Creator Economy and focus on selling direct



* Embrace multi-passionate creativity — and optimize for curiosity — as we move into The Creative Future.



* Generative AI, NFTs, and more



* The Creative Penn website and podcast



* Book-binding: Limited hand-bound edition of A Thousand Fiendish Angels



* I achieved a lifetime goal of walking the Camino de Santiago — and finished my Pilgrimage book



* The end of my Books and Travel Podcast



* Travel and speaking, health and personal things




Header image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.







Books for authors — Joanna Penn







I've had a draft of How to Write a Novel in my Work In Progress drive for over five years, but this year, I overcame resistance and finally finished it.



I was worried that I didn't have anything to add to the millions of other books on writing craft, but it turned out to be useful for some people, especially those who write out of order and are discovery writers.



I launched the book direct on my Shopify store, CreativePennBooks.com and sold it exclusively direct for a month before publishing it wide. It's now available on all platforms, in all formats, including the audiobook narrated by me.



Click here to buy it direct from me.



Click here to buy it from other stores.






Fiction as J.F. Penn — thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, horror, short stories



In the first quarter of 2022, I re-edited my first novel, Stone of Fire, and the subsequent two novels, Crypt of Bone, and Ark of Blood.



Click here for my lessons learned from re-editing.



Was it worth it?



Yes, creatively, because I am much happier about advertising the early books in the series now. Financially, I can't see any impact, but it was still personally worth it, especially as it helped me see how far my writing has come since that first novel in 2009 and the lessons helped me to finish https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35031 <p>“If you just keep writing/querying/marketing/etc you will eventually be successful. Just don't give up.” We've all heard a variation of this, but what if it isn't true? When is quitting worthwhile? Joanna Penn and Orna Ross discuss Quit: The Power of Knowing When To Walk Away by Annie Duke and give examples of what they […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2022/12/26/what-do-you-need-to-quit-with-joanna-penn-and-orna-ross/">What Do You Need To Quit? With Joanna Penn And Orna Ross</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> “If you just keep writing/querying/marketing/etc you will eventually be successful. Just don't give up.” We've all heard a variation of this, but what if it isn't true? When is quitting worthwhile? Joanna Penn and Orna Ross discuss Quit: The Power of K... “If you just keep writing/querying/marketing/etc you will eventually be successful. Just don't give up.” We've all heard a variation of this, but what if it isn't true? When is quitting worthwhile?



Joanna Penn and Orna Ross discuss
Quit: The Power of Knowing When To Walk Away by Annie Duke and give examples of what they have quit around writing, book marketing, and more.



In the intro, book recommendations, and Pilgrimage Kickstarter pre-launch page.



Get 33% off my ebooks, audiobooks and courses for the rest of 2022. Use coupon 2022 at checkout at CreativePennBooks.com (ebooks and audio, not print), and/or TheCreativePenn.com/learn for courses. Valid until the end of 2022.






This episode is supported by my patrons at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn. If you support the show, you get the extra Q&A episode for patrons only.



Joanna Penn and Orna Ross


Joanna Penn writes nonfiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F.Penn. She’s also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker.



Orna Ross is a novelist, poet, and non-fiction author. She's also the founder of the Alliance of Independent Authors, a professional speaker and creative coach.



You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 



Show Notes




* Why we need to reframe quitting — and why it's so hard to do



* Getting over sunk cost fallacy



* Why Orna quit a whole series of non-fiction books



* Why I quit my Books and Travel Podcast



* Other things you might want to quit: social media platforms, blogging, an author name, a book series, writing a book that's taking forever, marketing a book that isn't selling, a business model, a day job, being a full-time author, a city or even a country



* How quitting makes room for you to create something new




You can find Orna Ross at www.OrnaRoss.com and listen to the Ask ALLi Podcast on your favorite podcast app.



This episode originally went out on the Ask ALLi Podcast, 2 Dec 2022. Shareable image generated by Joanna Penn on Midjourney.



Transcript of the discussion



Joanna Penn: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Alliance of Independent Auth...]]>
Joanna Penn full false 42:44
Changes In Publishing With Jane Friedman https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2022/12/19/changes-in-publishing-with-jane-friedman/ Mon, 19 Dec 2022 06:15:00 +0000 https://www.thecreativepenn.com/?p=35012 <p>What has changed in the publishing industry over the last few years? What can authors learn from the DOJ vs PRH court case? How can mid-list authors thrive in uncertain times? Jane Friedman talks about these things and more. In the intro, USA Today list is on indefinite hiatus [US News]; Paid for bestseller list; […]</p> <p>The post <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2022/12/19/changes-in-publishing-with-jane-friedman/">Changes In Publishing With Jane Friedman</a> first appeared on <a href="https://www.thecreativepenn.com">The Creative Penn</a>.</p> What has changed in the publishing industry over the last few years? What can authors learn from the DOJ vs PRH court case? How can mid-list authors thrive in uncertain times? Jane Friedman talks about these things and more. In the intro, What has changed in the publishing industry over the last few years? What can authors learn from the DOJ vs PRH court case? How can mid-list authors thrive in uncertain times? Jane Friedman talks about these things and more.



In the intro, USA Today list is on indefinite hiatus [US News]; Paid for bestseller list; Recommended books; My scallop shell custom ornamental break; A Midwinter Sacrifice; The Author’s Mindset Podcast; What do you do if your book isn’t selling? [Rachael Herron]; My Pilgrimage Kickstarter pre-launch page; History Quill Writer's Conference;



Get 33% off my ebooks, audiobooks and courses for the rest of 2022. Use coupon 2022 at checkout at CreativePennBooks.com (ebooks and audio, not print), and/or TheCreativePenn.com/learn for courses. Valid until the end of 2022.






This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. 






Jane Friedman is the author of The Business of Being a Writer, as well as other nonfiction books. She's also an award-winning publishi